Oh Oracle--where are you, oh where are you

Well apparently patrons at Keeneland loved the new racetrack and bettors loved the racing. Total handle was up 7.1% from comparable day in 2005. And on-track handle was up 10% from 2005. There are full fields, 20 thousand people and increase in handle.

Now lets talk about Turfway. On-track handled increased by 4.6% from 2005 and all sources handled was up a staggering 23.6% over last years fall meet. Seems to be the bettors are liking the PolyTrack surface.

What is even more important to me is that the avg number of starters increased .2%. 8.7% vs 8.9%.

I know you have predicted that handle and attendance would decline and you don't have to say you are wrong or sorry. I am just happy with what is going on at Turfway and so far at Keeneland.

[Crown@club]

As far as Turfway goes:

Are those daily numbers or overall numbers? If they both had the same amount of days and races, then ok. But how many days was Turfway down last year.

.....and how many horses had been vanned off during the meet?

Originally Posted by Crown@club

As far as Turfway goes:

Are those daily numbers or overall numbers? If they both had the same amount of days and races, then ok. But how many days was Turfway down last year.

.....and how many horses had been vanned off during the meet?

The number of days is exactly the same as the 2005 Fall meet I believe. I am not 100% sure. Give me some time to do some research on that one. And it is overall numbers.

I also believe that ZERO horses were vanned off. But again, I am not 100% sure on that one. I will also do some research and get back to you.

[Crown@club]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

The number of days is exactly the same as the 2005 Fall meet I believe. I am not 100% sure. Give me some time to do some research on that one. And it is overall numbers.

I also believe that ZERO horses were vanned off. But again, I am not 100% sure on that one. I will also do some research and get back to you.

Actually wanted to know this stuff early in the year. But I'd be impressed if you answered the vanned off question, as Cliff Guilliams couldn't do it for the meet before.

Originally Posted by Crown@club

Actually wanted to know this stuff early in the year. But I'd be impressed if you answered the vanned off question, as Cliff Guilliams couldn't do it for the meet before.

Well the meet before they had three horses vanned off. Now I dont know what you mean by "vanned off." Do you mean horses that had a fatal breakdown or that broke something etc etc?

[Crown@club]

just vanned off - not broken down.

Now I'm actually surprised you have that information.

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Well apparently patrons at Keeneland loved the new racetrack and bettors loved the racing. Total handle was up 7.1% from comparable day in 2005. And on-track handle was up 10% from 2005. There are full fields, 20 thousand people and increase in handle.

Now lets talk about Turfway. On-track handled increased by 4.6% from 2005 and all sources handled was up a staggering 23.6% over last years fall meet. Seems to be the bettors are liking the PolyTrack surface.

What is even more important to me is that the avg number of starters increased .2%. 8.7% vs 8.9%.

I know you have predicted that handle and attendance would decline and you don't have to say you are wrong or sorry. I am just happy with what is going on at Turfway and so far at Keeneland.

Handle for a meet is based upon the entire meet, not one weekend. Obviously with the keyBC preps situated the first weekend(and the 10 race cards offered) handle will be highest at the start.
I'm kinda wondering where handle will be after the initial stakes races go by and players are scratching their heads at Asi Siempre winning, Kellys landing miraculously finding form after two horrible races, a 50-1 maiden winning the Alciabades, and numerous other completely illogical horses.
I also expect these results to have future consequences from trainers in the future meets conducted on the tires.
If you train a horse who flopped miserably on this surface, you will avoid running horses on it who flopped in the future.
Yesterday at Belmont Annika Lass, whohad a long string of fast good races interrupted by a dreadful Poly race at Woodbine, came back with a nice 2nd in the grade 2 race at Belmont. Obviously she hated the stuff and didn't just go off form.
As far as Circular Quay goes, if you think he handled that stuff like he handles dirt you are sadly mistaken. I would bet dollars to doughnuts that race was his first and last on the tires. Happy Ticket was unprepared for the break, but never appearewd to handle the surface either.
Its strictly a specialists surface, and if you had a half a brain you would have noted lemons only poor figure race(76 Beyer) came on the tires this spring in the race you argues she ran "well". Yesterday confirmed she can't run a step on it, as once again she flopped on itand never put in a real run.
This was the first major meet run on it. Lets see how many who ran poorly avoid the stuff next out, even if its next spring.
One other thing you left out Mr Shill, it was noted that Turfway Park's purse distribution was down 9% this past meet. You care to explain to me how handle that went up 4.6% caused a purse distribution that went down 9%. You have a lotta splaining to do on that one Lucy.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Handle for a meet is based upon the entire meet, not one weekend. Obviously with the keyBC preps situated the first weekend(and the 10 race cards offered) handle will be highest at the start.
I'm kinda wondering where handle will be after the initial stakes races go by and players are scratching their heads at Asi Siempre winning, Kellys landing miraculously finding form after two horrible races, a 50-1 maiden winning the Alciabades, and numerous other completely illogical horses.
I also expect these results to have future consequences from trainers in the future meets conducted on the tires.
If you train a horse who flopped miserably on this surface, you will avoid running horses on it who flopped in the future.
Yesterday at Belmont Annika Lass, whohad a long string of fast good races interrupted by a dreadful Poly race at Woodbine, came back with a nice 2nd in the grade 2 race at Belmont. Obviously she hated the stuff and didn't just go off form.
As far as Circular Quay goes, if you think he handled that stuff like he handles dirt you are sadly mistaken. I would bet dollars to doughnuts that race was his first and last on the tires. Happy Ticket was unprepared for the break, but never appearewd to handle the surface either.
Its strictly a specialists surface, and if you had a half a brain you would have noted lemons only poor figure race(76 Beyer) came on the tires this spring in the race you argues she ran "well". Yesterday confirmed she can't run a step on it, as once again she flopped on itand never put in a real run.
This was the first major meet run on it. Lets see how many who ran poorly avoid the stuff next out, even if its next spring.
One other thing you left out Mr Shill, it was noted that Turfway Park's purse distribution was down 9% this past meet. You care to explain to me how handle that went up 4.6% caused a purse distribution that went down 9%. You have a lotta splaining to do on that one Lucy.

Ummm..we arent talking about horses that like or dislike the surface. We are talking about handle and horse field size. Your initial assumption was that handle and field size would be down for Turfway and Keeneland. Turfway has experienced two meet with increase in handle (the first meet was a little scewed). The second meet was a success. I also want to know why the purse distribution was down 9%. As a person who races there I want to know that answer. Of course I will just get bull crap answer.

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Ummm..we arent talking about horses that like or dislike the surface. We are talking about handle and horse field size. Your initial assumption was that handle and field size would be down for Turfway and Keeneland. Turfway has experienced two meet with increase in handle (the first meet was a little scewed). The second meet was a success. I also want to know why the purse distribution was down 9%. As a person who races there I want to know that answer. Of course I will just get bull crap answer.

Well I don't think you need to ask TP that question, just use your head. They ran even more cheaper and cheaper races for bottom claiming horses. Appears they had a hard time getting bigger fields for allowance and maiden races. Whats that tell you?

Just as I expected--here is the answer to the negative purse structure.

While the track's contribution to purses stayed nearly level with 2005's Fall Meet, showing a 2.6 percent decline, total available purse money for the 2006 meet dropped 8.7 percent to $3,577,420. The drop reflects a concerted effort in the 2005 Fall Meet to pay down a balance of Kentucky Thoroughbred Development Fund monies accumulated during cancellations in the 2005 Winter/Spring Meet.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Well I don't think you need to ask TP that question, just use your head. They ran even more cheaper and cheaper races for bottom claiming horses. Appears they had a hard time getting bigger fields for allowance and maiden races. Whats that tell you?

They're just like most of the tracks in the United States right now?

[Scav]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Appears they had a hard time getting bigger fields for allowance and maiden races. Whats that tell you?

Disagree, plus I experienced the opposite. Never have I seen a 14 horse MSW on a Thursday night at Turfway, with a couple 250k purchases in there, NEVER

"This year, however, the track filled more allowance races and generally lured better-quality fields."

http://www.bloodhorse.com/articleind...e.asp?id=35671

[tiznowthegreat]

I don't get how this can even be an argument. Turfway has improved in every aspect since installing the Polytrack. Better trainers, better jockeys, larger handle, everything. It went from a track almost being shut down to a track that is on the drastic improve.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Kellys landing miraculously finding form after two horrible races,

Its strictly a specialists surface, and if you had a half a brain you would have noted lemons only poor figure race(76 Beyer) came on the tires this spring in the race you argues she ran "well". Yesterday confirmed she can't run a step on it, as once again she flopped on itand never put in a real run.

Kellys Landing has made a career out of miraculous recovery from suspect races to big races.

Watch the Spinster over again before you say that Lemons never put in a real run or "flopped". Guidry occasionally will let a horse get too far behind (speak from first hand experience). She was running at the end despite being hopelessly behind at the 1/4 pole and would have been 2nd in 2 more jumps. It is her style and when she wins like the Oaks it looks impressive but more often you get results like yesterday.