How Vijay Got Into Medical School

[Rupert Pupkin]

This guy couldn't get accepted at any med schools when he told the truth about his ethnicity, which was Asian Indian-American. So he decided that he would lie and say he was African American. Then he started getting interviews everywhere and he got accepted to a school where he had already been turned down.

http://www.mediaite.com/online/mindy...edical-school/

[dellinger63]

If a man at 60 can come to the conclusion he is a woman why can't a man in his 20's not be African American?

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

This guy couldn't get accepted at any med schools when he told the truth about his ethnicity, which was Asian Indian-American. So he decided that he would lie and say he was African American. Then he started getting interviews everywhere and he got accepted to a school where he had already been turned down.

http://www.mediaite.com/online/mindy...edical-school/

It's inaccurate to say he was rejected at the schools as there's no evidence he applied to them previously before choosing to commit fraud. But hey, why let the pesky little details get in the way of one's personal agenda?

Read the piece I link to below, Rupert, if you can handle anything not from a right-wing source. The writer's got a bit of a potty mouth, but she includes an awful lot of details that the right-wing sources you're reading this from have opted to leave out.

http://reappropriate.co/?p=8281

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

It's inaccurate to say he was rejected at the schools as there's no evidence he applied to them previously before choosing to commit fraud. But hey, why let the pesky little details get in the way of one's personal agenda?

Read the piece I link to below, Rupert, if you can handle anything not from a right-wing source. The writer's got a bit of a potty mouth, but she includes an awful lot of details that the right-wing sources you're reading this from have opted to leave out.

http://reappropriate.co/?p=8281

There's some pesky details you neglected to include that were brought up in the comment section.

An Asian applicant with a 31Q MCAT score and a 3.1 GPA has a 17.9% chance of being accepted to med school (10.6% chance with only GPA considered)
https://www.aamc.org/download/321516...stable25-3.pdf

While an African American applicant with THE SAME MCAT score and GPA has a 74.3% chance of being accepted (25% with only GPA considered)
https://www.aamc.org/download/321514...stable25-2.pdf

This information not according to either a right or left leaning source but the Association of American Medical Colleges.

So while the author made a good point regarding the lack of a control in the 'experiment' the fact remains an African American applicant and Asian applicant with identical MCAT scores and GPA's results in the African American applicant having 4X the chance of being accepted.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

There's some pesky details you neglected to include that were brought up in the comment section.

An Asian applicant with a 31Q MCAT score and a 3.1 GPA has a 17.9% chance of being accepted to med school (10.6% chance with only GPA considered)
https://www.aamc.org/download/321516...stable25-3.pdf

While an African American applicant with THE SAME MCAT score and GPA has a 74.3% chance of being accepted (25% with only GPA considered)
https://www.aamc.org/download/321514...stable25-2.pdf

This information not according to either a right or left leaning source but the Association of American Medical Colleges.

So while the author made a good point regarding the lack of a control in the 'experiment' the fact remains an African American applicant and Asian applicant with identical MCAT scores and GPA's results in the African American applicant having 4X the chance of being accepted.

Dell, read the comments after the article, while contentious, they are pretty informative about the process of applying to medical school. There are a gajillion factors that go into how schools select (for example, a 3.1 from the University of Chicago, ranked #4 in undergraduate colleges in the nation, is going to weigh more than a higher GPA from some crappy state school).

But especially, a big thing with medical school applicants is that they apply to schools near to where they are, and so you have to look at population distribution nationwide- Asian Americans are concentrated in some areas, African Americans in others. While the AMA posts those stats, they don't paint a clear picture, without geographic distribution factored in. It's an incredibly complicated process, this "holistic" method of reviewing applications.

And- on top of that, if these are stats that the AMA is perfectly open about, then why does Mindy Kaling's unsuccessful brother, who couldn't even finish medical school, think that his 2 years of fraud is even noteworthy? Unless, of course, he's figured out that right-wingers are especially gullible to bs that "those people" get some kind of advantage and figures he's going to ride that right-wing grifter gravy train as far as he can, with his book proposal. Heck, Sarah Palin made a bucketload of money off it, why shouldn't he?

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

Dell, read the comments after the article, while contentious, they are pretty informative about the process of applying to medical school. There are a gajillion factors that go into how schools select (for example, a 3.1 from the University of Chicago, ranked #4 in undergraduate colleges in the nation, is going to weigh more than a higher GPA from some crappy state school).

But especially, a big thing with medical school applicants is that they apply to schools near to where they are, and so you have to look at population distribution nationwide- Asian Americans are concentrated in some areas, African Americans in others. While the AMA posts those stats, they don't paint a clear picture, without geographic distribution factored in. It's an incredibly complicated process, this "holistic" method of reviewing applications.

And- on top of that, if these are stats that the AMA is perfectly open about, then why does Mindy Kaling's unsuccessful brother, who couldn't even finish medical school, think that his 2 years of fraud is even noteworthy? Unless, of course, he's figured out that right-wingers are especially gullible to bs that "those people" get some kind of advantage and figures he's going to ride that right-wing grifter gravy train as far as he can, with his book proposal. Heck, Sarah Palin made a bucketload of money off it, why shouldn't he?

I want to give you a hypothetical: Lets say a black man believed he was being discriminated against in some type of application process. So in order to prove it, he changes his application and says he is white. What would you say? Would you be pissed off about it and accuse him of fraud? Of course not. You would probably say the guy is a hero. Yet in the case of the Asian/American guy lying about his race, you portray him as a bad guy and accuse him of fraud. If that's not hypocrisy I don't know what is.

[dellinger63]

Too bad Vijay didn't aspire to head up a local NAACP chapter. Might not have even had to blackface.

The hypocrisy on display is undeniable.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

It's inaccurate to say he was rejected at the schools as there's no evidence he applied to them previously before choosing to commit fraud. But hey, why let the pesky little details get in the way of one's personal agenda?

Read the piece I link to below, Rupert, if you can handle anything not from a right-wing source. The writer's got a bit of a potty mouth, but she includes an awful lot of details that the right-wing sources you're reading this from have opted to leave out.

http://reappropriate.co/?p=8281

Did the author even read the story? It said specifically that he was turned down from SLU when he applied as Asian/Indian. Then when he used a different name and said he was black he got accepted with the exact same application.

Your article was a typical liberal piece in that it attacked the victim and tried to make him look like a real bad guy. The author was furious at Vijay because he exposed the truth about how ridiculous affirmative action is. If she wants to defend affirmative action, that is fine. She should make her case for it. But to attack this guy is silly. When you think about it, Vijay didn't really tell us anything new. He just presented us with the details of his specific story. But we already know that this goes on. Dellinger showed the statistics. There is nothing for you to dispute. You can attack the messenger but that is just a smokescreen. It doesn't change the facts about affirmative action. The statistics speak for themselves.

If you are in favor of affirmative action that is ok. You are entitled to your opinion. I don't understand why you and the author don't just say that you think it is a good thing that Vijay got accepted as a black man but not as an Asian/Indian man. Why would Vijay's story be hard to believe considering that Dellinger's statistics show that this kind of thing happens all the time?

By the way, the true opinion of you and the author makes a lot of sense. Your opinions are basically that people with dark skin should get a special break, but only people with a certain type of dark skin. That is basically what you are saying, if you believe that the current system is fine in that an Asian/Indian man should not get the special treatment but an African American man should get the special treatment.

[dellinger63]

In further examination of the AAMC tables, an African American applicant with a GPA between 2.6 and 2.79 and a MCAT score of 24-26 has a slightly better chance of being accepted to a Med School than a Asian applicant with a 3.1 GPA and 31 MCAT score.

Something one may want to consider when shopping for a doctor since the decision may come down to life or death.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

In further examination of the AAMC tables, an African American applicant with a GPA between 2.6 and 2.79 and a MCAT score of 24-26 has a slightly better chance of being accepted to a Med School than a Asian applicant with a 3.1 GPA and 31 MCAT score.

Something one may want to consider when shopping for a doctor since the decision may come down to life or death.

You wouldn't want to go to a doctor who is a lousy doctor and had no business being accepted to medical school in the first place, but who got in because of a quota? How dare you!

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

You wouldn't want to go to a doctor who is a lousy doctor and had no business being accepted to medical school in the first place, but who got in because of a quota? How dare you!

Not sure whether GPA's and MCAT scores determine whether or not a doctor is lousy, but accepting inferior applicants over others in a field as important as healthcare seems a bit backwards.

But then again with atrocities going on like gays hypothetically being denied pizza catering at their weddings it must take a backseat for the time being

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Did the author even read the story? It said specifically that he was turned down from SLU when he applied as Asian/Indian. Then when he used a different name and said he was black he got accepted with the exact same application.

I read the article. And several of the original links the article cited. In absolutely none of them does it say he previously applied to SLU as an Asian American and was rejected. I read the mediaite one (which tries to imply it, which is a pretty basic tactic of biased journalism and is very easy to spot with competent critical reading skills), and the NY Post one, and his original post on his website. And nowhere does it say he applied to SLU, or ANY of those schools as an Asian American.

So yes, I would say the author of the link I posted did read the article, and correctly drew the conclusion that he didn't apply to any medical schools as an Asian American.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

I read the article. And several of the original links the article cited. In absolutely none of them does it say he previously applied to SLU as an Asian American and was rejected. I read the mediaite one (which tries to imply it, which is a pretty basic tactic of biased journalism and is very easy to spot with competent critical reading skills), and the NY Post one, and his original post on his website. And nowhere does it say he applied to SLU, or ANY of those schools as an Asian American.

So yes, I would say the author of the link I posted did read the article, and correctly drew the conclusion that he didn't apply to any medical schools as an Asian American.

The exact quote was "With this, “Jojo” managed to get into the selective Saint Louis University School of Medicine with the exact same application he used as an Indian man".

I took that to mean it was the exact same application that he was turned down with.

Why would you doubt that he would get into more medical schools if he said he was black? You have obviously heard of affirmative action. That is what affirmative action is. Many schools use affirmative action. Are you denying the existence of affirmative action?

As I said before, this article doesn't say anything new. It doesn't say anything that everybody doesn't already know. It is not a secret that many schools use affirmative action. All this article really does is just give a specific example of affirmative action in use. And when you see how it works in the real world, you realize the absurdity of it. How absurd is it that a school would accept a guy who looks black but if they realized he is Asian/American, then they would no longer want him? It is absurd and you know it. And how could you argue that this doesn't happen. It happens every day. People get accepted and rejected based on their race. That is what affirmative action is. It is the epitome of racism. I guess the people who support it would claim that it is ok to use racism to fight past racism. That is basically the argument. I strongly disagree with that logic, especially nowadays. The logic was questionable 40 years ago. Maybe 40 years ago you could make a slight case for it. I don't know how anyone could defend it today.