Who was closer to the Triple Crown...Smarty or Alex?

RollerDoc · #1 10-15-2006, 12:53 PM

I'm guessing some here will think this is a ridiculous question.

In 2004, Smarty Jones won the Derby, Preakness, and then lost by one length to Birdstone, falling just short of winning the elusive Triple Crown.

In 2005, Afleet Alex lost The Kentucky Derby by 1 1/2 lengths, and then won the Preakness and Belmont easily.

I realize I am being a Monday Morning quarterback, but in those two scenarios, which horse was closest to winning the Triple Crown?

On one hand Smarty led until the very end of the Belmont. Could his jockey have done something to run a better race or was that truly an effort of everything Smarty had to give.

On the other hand, did Jeremy Rose run the best race he could of with Alex in the Derby? Of course Jeremy Rose redeemed himself in the Preakness for matching AA's superb athleticism when they clipped heels with Scrappy T.

So again, my question is Who was closer to winning the Triple Crown or which horse could have won the Triple Crown?

pmayjr · #2 10-15-2006, 01:00 PM

Yeah man I'm warning you. Some posters on this site will slay you for posting about hypotheticals. I posted before that even if nothing woulda happened to Barbaro in the Preakness, I think Bernardini would have beaten him that day. I got destroyed for making a comment on something that never happened. So be prepared for the same...

With that being said- Probably Afleet Alex. Because the Derby was a freak race with a freak pace scenario. Plus Rose was weaving Alex through the lane which prolly took extra out of him. But otherwise, AA didn't have any "true" foes. He wrecked everyone else in the 3 year old division.

On the Flip side, eventhough Smarty won the first 2 legs fairly convincingly- but Birdstone turned out to be the real deal. The pace was forced on Smarty, and he finally ran out of gas. But Birdstone was validated by the Travers win (whether you wanna say he beat a weak group or not, I don't care, he won it). So Afleet Alex was closer in my eyes.

ateamstupid · #3 10-15-2006, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pmayjr

Yeah man I'm warning you. Some posters on this site will slay you for posting about hypotheticals. I posted before that even if nothing woulda happened to Barbaro in the Preakness, I think Bernardini would have beaten him that day.

This isn't really a hypothetical.. It's based on stuff that already happened, and is actually one of the smartest and most intriguing posts I've seen on here in a while.

Smarty was unfairly sabotaged in the Belmont, but Afleet Alex ran on a dead rail for most of the Derby, and they both missed the TC by just a length.

I'm gonna give Smarty the slight nod, because the circumstance that cost him the TC is a much more tangible than the one that cost 'Alex. While I don't dispute that the rail was dead that day at CD, who knows how much it cost him and HOW dead it was? Smarty, on the other hand, was clearly sabotaged and it certainly cost him the TC in my eyes.

Very good post.

repent · #4 10-15-2006, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

This isn't really a hypothetical.. It's based on stuff that already happened, and is actually one of the smartest and most intriguing posts I've seen on here in a while.

Smarty was unfairly sabotaged in the Belmont, but Afleet Alex ran on a dead rail for most of the Derby, and they both missed the TC by just a length.

I'm gonna give Smarty the slight nod, because the circumstance that cost him the TC is a much more tangible than the one that cost 'Alex. While I don't dispute that the rail was dead that day at CD, who knows how much it cost him and HOW dead it was? Smarty, on the other hand, was clearly sabotaged and it certainly cost him the TC in my eyes.

Very good post.

unfairly sabotaged?

Ive never heard of anything as ridiculous ateam.
the other jocks tried to do what they could to get him beat, but thats not unfair.
thats racing.
its not lke Zito or the whitneys paid off the other contestants.

He got beat by a better horse. A Travers winner.
no different than when VGallop beat RQuiet or when Touch Gold beat SCharm.

Repent

repent · #5 10-15-2006, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Absolutely no way that Birdstone was better than Smarty. Bailey was mad, and was on a mission to make sure the horse he tried so hard to get on, was not a TC winner. Birdstone was no slouch, as his Travers showed, but I think it is crazy to say he was a better horse.

yap, yap, yap........................

same rhetoric the smarty party always uses, and they never say anything of substance.

The Stone and lucky jones met one time on a dry track,
and The Stone beat him.
lucky needed a wet track to beat him.

and Bailey would not lower himself to riding on that PA bred.
he had real horses to ride.

Repent

1st_Saturday_in_May · #6 10-16-2006, 12:03 AM

Just nod and pretend to agree with Repent

You're not going to win this one with him, its been going on for a long time now and nothing has changed...

repent · #7 10-16-2006, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

So this babble was substance? Would the real horses Bailey had to ride be the ones that couldn't get within a sniff of Smarty? Your "substance" is that they met once on a dry track and beat him? Yeah he did, but I highly doubt you will find many sane people that will tell you Smarty wasn't best that day. His Belmont is the most courageous run I have ever seen, and like I said most sane people will tell you the same. Like I said, Birdstone was a pretty good horse, to win a Belmont and travers is a very good accomplishment. But he was not better than Smarty. And I would love for you to find people who agree with your stance.

I dont give 2 sh*ts if anyone agrees with me.

and that Belmont run was the most courageous you have seen?

lmao,
did you not see PEnsign's BC Distaff win?
how about any of Giants Causeway's wins during that incredible win streak?
or either one of Tiznow's BCC wins?
or Storm Flag Flying's BCJF win?

you see, all these horses WON.

lucky jones LOST.

if you want to talk about amazing performances in a losing effort,
check out Rock of Gibraltar's BCMile run.
or Falbrav's BCTurf loss.
or Swain's Dubai World Cup loss to Silver Charm.

all much more impressive performances and displays of "courage".

Repent

kentuckyrosesinmay · #8 10-15-2006, 01:01 PM

Definitely Afleet Alex. Definitely. He should have won the Derby, but luck was not with him.

SniperSB23 · #9 10-15-2006, 01:07 PM

Alex, still not sure why he didn't fire in the stretch there when it was there for the taking. Smarty would have had a tough time beating Birdstone on that day at 12 furlongs even if he'd been able to run more reasonable fractions.

1st_Saturday_in_May · #10 10-15-2006, 01:09 PM

Smarty! Come on, if Bailey AND Solis dont ride out of their way in the Belmont to screw him over, he wins the Triple Crown.

RollerDoc · #11 10-15-2006, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1st_Saturday_in_May

Smarty! Come on, if Bailey AND Solis dont ride out of their way in the Belmont to screw him over, he wins the Triple Crown.

Hey Reppin.......my dad played basketball for Duquesne. By the way, how did Smarty get screwed over?

1st_Saturday_in_May · #12 10-15-2006, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

Hey Reppin.......my dad played basketball for Duquesne. By the way, how did Smarty get screwed over?

Watch the way that Bailey rides Eddington and Solis rides RH10. Neither seemed to be trying to win the race for themselves. Their sole purpose in there was to gun at SJ early and it didnt matter if they wore out their own horses - which they did - just so long as he didnt win. Also, how coincidental is it that neither rode their respective mounts again?

blackthroatedwind · #13 10-15-2006, 01:12 PM

Real Quiet.

Wouldn't a better question be who was closer to the Triple Crown between Going Wild and Cupecoy's Joy?

pmayjr · #14 10-15-2006, 01:16 PM

I do agree with the point about Bailey riding his horse into the ground in the Belmont to ruin Smarty's chances... we're justt all conspircay theorists here aren't we? But then again... is it really much different than what Spanish Chestnut did to all the pace setters (including Bellamy Road) in the Giacomo/AA Debry? Or what Shake the Bank does for Better talk Now?

NoCarolinaTony · #15 10-16-2006, 12:02 AM

Why are we trying to even answer a question like this? It's history and it is what it is. Neither horse won the triple crown and both won two legs and fininshed in the money in the one leg that they missed.

It's already in the books.

Is the real question who was better Smarty Jones or Afleet Alex?

NC Tony

ateamstupid · #16 10-16-2006, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoCarolinaTony

Why are we trying to even answer a question like this? It's history and it is what it is. Neither horse won the triple crown and both won two legs and fininshed in the money in the one leg that they missed.

It's already in the books.

Is the real question who was better Smarty Jones or Afleet Alex?

NC Tony

LOL @ the hypocrisy of that.

It's in the books, but you want to know which one was "better"?

I think this is a much more interesting and productive thread, as "Who was closer to the TC?" is easier to define and less subjective than "Who was better?" Besides, we already have enough "Who's better than who" threads around here and they get nowhere.