dear bernardini fans....

[avance2000]

.....take it. that is all i can say. take it. you owe us that. us rational people had to listen to your bs for a long time. "he was as good as secretariat. he was way better than barbaro. well guess what......he was not.
i fully expect people to attack me for "ripping" bernardini after that race and his defenders may blast me for this post. i'm fine with that, in part because - as my signature this last week probably reveals - i had a nice day at the windows today. but the bottom line is that we had to listen to your irrational and unjustified comments about this horse for months. now sit back and let us rational people take the stage for awhile. you were flat-wrong. when your boy met a quality animal he folded up like a cheap suit.
he is no invasor. he is no barbaro. secretariat? it isn't even worth discussing.
the best horse won today. there is no question about that....and i'm not just saying it after the fact.....i have been saying it on this board for awhile.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Not really necessary.Is it? These 2 horses were always close on figures,and that's what was shown today.

[avance2000]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Not really necessary.Is it?

it wouldn't have been if we hadn't been subjected to 5 months of crap from some people on here about how this was the greatest horse ever. i think if we had 400 threads on this board (which we did) about how wonderful and unbeatable this horse was, it is fair to have one which discusses the insanity of those people and their nonsense.

[blackthroatedwind]

OK, so people overrated him...that's obvious, but this silly and incorrect thread/post is just as inaccurate. First of all, Barbaro did not PROVE on the racetrack that he was a superior horse. Second of all, losing to Invasor is hardly a disgrace as that horse has proven himself this year to be a fine animal. Thirdly, anyone that can analyze a race, and believe me Invasor meant a decent amount of money to me, knows that Bernardini hardly benefited from the most well timed ride. Clearly Castellano panicked when he wasn't doing his best running on the backstretch and forced him into a premature move, which is Castellano's achilles heel, and Bernardini hardly embarrased himself from there. What we saw today were two horses running very well and putting on an exciting show...the kind we see all too infrequently.

Yes, the " he could have run much faster " comments were off base. Hopefully people will learn a lot from Bernardini's performances today and prior to today and next time they see a horse winning easily they will realize that does not necessarily translate into a much faster performance when the horse is challenged, especially if such horse is running as fast as Bernardini was in those easy wins. However, none of that diminishes Bernardini's immense talent. Ya know, actually not being as good as Secretariat is hardly a knock.

The unfortunate thing will be if we don't get to see Bernardini run next year, when he has had more time to mature, as perhaps then he could live up to at least some people's lofty expectations.

[avance2000]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

losing to Invasor is hardly a disgrace as that horse has proven himself this year to be a fine animal.
Bernardini hardly embarrased himself from there. What we saw today were two horses running very well and putting on an exciting show...the kind we see all two infrequently.
Ya know, actually not being as good as Secretariat is hardly a knock.

i agree 100% with these points, especially the point about secretariat. in fact that is my point. why couldn't they just say....bernardini is a good horse. why did the have to start comparing him to the best ever?
i am not not saying bernardini disgraced himself today. he is a good horse. nobody could deny that. i am saying that the people who have been drooling over the horse ever sense the preakness have disgraced themselves. we had to listen about how great he was for so long.....that they need to hear about how wrong they were. they probably already know it now......but they need to hear it over and over and over.......just like we did.

[blackthroatedwind]

No doubt. Bernardini was spoken of in a manner that his actual mperformances belied. I guess people WANT to see really good horses and are too quick to annoint them these days.....especially since they hardly hang around long enough to find out just how good they really are. I guess Smarty Jones is lucky to have avoided that embarrassment .

This is a very unfortunate side to early retirements and the BC reducing the number of difficult matchups. We just don't get enough chances to see how really good the top horses actually are. One thing about horse racing....NO career was or should ever be made in one day or one race.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Well,when people were telling others that hoped they played against the horse(so they could make even more,)I thought it was unjustified.Anytime you change tracks,and /or a horse's level of competition,that horse can fail.We also were seeing an increase in field size that could get some horses out of their comfort zone.There are just a lot of things that make the chances of failure more likely,and if they exist on raceday,then your chances of getting beat go up.

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Well,when people were telling others that hoped they played against the horse(so they could make even more,)I thought it was unjustified.Anytime you change tracks,and /or a horse's level of competition,that horse can fail.We also were seeing an increase in field size that could get some horses out of their comfort zone.There are just a lot of things that make the chances of failure more likely,and if they exist on raceday,then your chances of getting beat go up.

Exactly. It would take a super horse to justify 1.1-1 odds against that field. (I wasn't overly impressed with the field, but it still would require a hugely dominant fav to be 1.1-1.) Bernardini had not shown enough to justify those odds.

I tried to explain that to Pillow Pants, but he only encouraged me to bet more against Bernardini. ;>)

--Dunbar

[LARHAGE]

Originally Posted by avance2000

i agree 100% with these points, especially the point about secretariat. in fact that is my point. why couldn't they just say....bernardini is a good horse. why did the have to start comparing him to the best ever?
i am not not saying bernardini disgraced himself today. he is a good horse. nobody could deny that. i am saying that the people who have been drooling over the horse ever sense the preakness have disgraced themselves. we had to listen about how great he was for so long.....that they need to hear about how wrong they were. they probably already know it now......but they need to hear it over and over and over.......just like we did.

I have news for you, since the beginning of time the whole premise of horseracing was the opinion that ones horse was faster than another, and as someone who actually was a fan during the Scretariat, Seattle Slew and Affirmed eras there were fans like you, saying that people were crazy to be excited about a Bold Ruler running a distance, a crooked legged cheap horse winning the Crown etc... It's simple human nature to knock success, we don't know what the future holds for Bernardini, who's to say if he races next year that he doesn't fullfill the expectations of many, at the comparable stages of their careers Bernardini has been far more impressive than say Forego, who I would think no one could argue with his greatness, no?

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

OK, so people overrated him...that's obvious, but this silly and incorrect thread/post is just as inaccurate. First of all, Barbaro did not PROVE on the racetrack that he was a superior horse. Second of all, losing to Invasor is hardly a disgrace as that horse has proven himself this year to be a fine animal. Thirdly, anyone that can analyze a race, and believe me Invasor meant a decent amount of money to me, knows that Bernardini hardly benefited from the most well timed ride. Clearly Castellano panicked when he wasn't doing his best running on the backstretch and forced him into a premature move, which is Castellano's achilles heel, and Bernardini hardly embarrased himself from there. What we saw today were two horses running very well and putting on an exciting show...the kind we see all too infrequently.

Yes, the " he could have run much faster " comments were off base. Hopefully people will learn a lot from Bernardini's performances today and prior to today and next time they see a horse winning easily they will realize that does not necessarily translate into a much faster performance when the horse is challenged, especially if such horse is running as fast as Bernardini was in those easy wins. However, none of that diminishes Bernardini's immense talent. Ya know, actually not being as good as Secretariat is hardly a knock.

The unfortunate thing will be if we don't get to see Bernardini run next year, when he has had more time to mature, as perhaps then he could live up to at least some people's lofty expectations.

Great post - I had posted that I thought this colt was truly special (I never said he was a great horse just yet - "great" is a word that is thrown around too lightly and when it is, it diminishes the true meaning - but I thought that Bernardini had the potential to be a great horse, which was just as important to me.) and I still believe it. I was definitely guilty of underrating Invasor - he's a very, very good horse.

Although I'm still very disappointed, I know that Bernardini tried his best and that's all I can ask. I truly hope that the Sheikh will change his mind and allow him to run next year- the leap in maturity from 3 to 4 is great and Bernardini would be even better as an older horse. This race probably did him a world of good mentally........

[LARHAGE]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

OK, so people overrated him...that's obvious, but this silly and incorrect thread/post is just as inaccurate. First of all, Barbaro did not PROVE on the racetrack that he was a superior horse. Second of all, losing to Invasor is hardly a disgrace as that horse has proven himself this year to be a fine animal. Thirdly, anyone that can analyze a race, and believe me Invasor meant a decent amount of money to me, knows that Bernardini hardly benefited from the most well timed ride. Clearly Castellano panicked when he wasn't doing his best running on the backstretch and forced him into a premature move, which is Castellano's achilles heel, and Bernardini hardly embarrased himself from there. What we saw today were two horses running very well and putting on an exciting show...the kind we see all too infrequently.

Yes, the " he could have run much faster " comments were off base. Hopefully people will learn a lot from Bernardini's performances today and prior to today and next time they see a horse winning easily they will realize that does not necessarily translate into a much faster performance when the horse is challenged, especially if such horse is running as fast as Bernardini was in those easy wins. However, none of that diminishes Bernardini's immense talent. Ya know, actually not being as good as Secretariat is hardly a knock.

The unfortunate thing will be if we don't get to see Bernardini run next year, when he has had more time to mature, as perhaps then he could live up to at least some people's lofty expectations.

Great post! I'm also glad you said the same thing I thought, Castellano moved too early, Bernardini still almost overcame that and I agree he will benefit ( hopefully) from the experience next year.

I keep watching the replay and it's obvious Bern wasn't on his game today. Castellano moved him too early and that also hindered his chance to win. Not saying he would've won if Castellano waited, but it certainly would've been closer.

Invasor ran an incredible race and deserves HOY. That stumble was very close to being disastrous and the ability to recover from that AND the amazing stretch run make for an unforgettable classic. One of the best.

[ninetoone]

I agree w/PP...it could have been closer...also, George Washington was assasinated in the stretch and lost all chance to compete....I think he would have been up there as well.

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

I keep watching the replay and it's obvious Bern wasn't on his game today. Castellano moved him too early and that also hindered his chance to win. Not saying he would've won if Castellano waited, but it certainly would've been closer.

Invasor ran an incredible race and deserves HOY. That stumble was very close to being disastrous and the ability to recover from that AND the amazing stretch run make for an unforgettable classic. One of the best.

Horrible ride by JC. He had a chance to guide Dini to the rail going into the first turn but chose to rush up between horses. Then he moves way way too soon around the far turn. But I would take 6 wins, multiple Grade I's and a 2nd place finish in the Classic all day long. Someone come up with a horse (on dirt) that had a more impressive year?

[avance2000]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Horrible ride by JC. He had a chance to guide Dini to the rail going into the first turn but chose to rush up between horses. Then he moves way way too soon around the far turn. But I would take 6 wins, multiple Grade I's and a 2nd place finish in the Classic all day long. Someone come up with a horse (on dirt) that had a more impressive year?

ummmm.....maybe......invasor?

Originally Posted by avance2000

ummmm.....maybe......invasor?

Really--how so? Just because he won today makes it a better year. Explain your reasoning here.

[avance2000]

well they each won the same # of graded stakes races in the U.S. right? (four i think)
and invasor won the big one.
to me that makes for a better year

[boswd]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Really--how so? Just because he won today makes it a better year. Explain your reasoning here.

Pim. Special GI
Suburban GI
Whitney GI
Breeder's Cup Classic GI

That is more than prety impressive.

[Suffolk Shippers]

I was definately against Bernardini going into this because I felt he hadn't beaten anyone this year and he had yet to be tested. The only horse he ever "beat" was Barbaro and that horse's leg was dangling from his torso.
That being said, totally dismissing Bernardini as a fraud is a very flawed position to take.

This is another instance where "super horse" or "monster" did not apply. I wish people would be a little less trigger happy to label a horse in that fashion. If beating short fields of over matched three year olds by a combined 40 lengths qualifies as a monster, than I have a few Massachusetts bred 3 yr olds who have dominated the state bred $40,000 stakes at Suffolk Downs this year to show you...are they monsters, too?

Of course not. We would all be better suited to wait out the hype in this sport. We are all seemingly desperate for a superstar. It's becoming more and more obvious that those stars have become elusive, and the ones we *think* we have turn out to have a little less luster than we expected or aren't given the chance to develop, either by being retired or injured.

Bernardini is a really good horse. If he keeps racing, he can easily be a champion of some sorts and remembered as a great one. But the insane comparisons...Secretariat? Be serious people. Wait until the chips are down and the races are run.

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

I keep watching the replay and it's obvious Bern wasn't on his game today. Castellano moved him too early and that also hindered his chance to win. Not saying he would've won if Castellano waited, but it certainly would've been closer.

Invasor ran an incredible race and deserves HOY. That stumble was very close to being disastrous and the ability to recover from that AND the amazing stretch run make for an unforgettable classic. One of the best.

Dont see how you can say this. When you run against this many fast horses sh it happens and he did not handle it. Castellano was used to easy rides on this animal and he did not get his way. Thats what happens when you run in big fields with fast animals. He still ran a good race but this was not unexpected to those who realize this horse had not even been close to being tested. I wish we could see him again because he could be a super horse to watch. Huge upside. Both rider and horse learned a whole bunch.

What I really find funny is the lock business. For a 3 year old running against this big a field and older horses. He did quite well imo.