Paris wtf

[jms62]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

My stepmom and stepbrothers came to this country as political refugees. They didn't speak English. One stepbrother now has a Masters in Psychology and the other works for the company his father-in-law founded (his father-in-law, before he passed away, kidded to us that if my stepbrother and his wife ever split up, they were going to keep my stepbrother. ) They're awesome fathers to their kids, and just good human beings all around.

My stepmom found work here as a nurse's aide and is the extraordinary grandmother to eight grand- and step-grandkids.

If they'd stayed where they were, they likely would have died as children, and my stepmom, in her 20s.

F*ck those who want to close the borders to people fleeing war and persecution. We're the f*cking US of A; we're better than that.

Different time different set of refugee's. I'm not a betting man but I am willing to bet the refugee's that your family came in with weren't infiltrated with those wanting to and willing to invoke acts of terror and kill as many of us as possible.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Yes. Absolutely. WE CANNOT AFFORD THEM.




And have no idea where at least one of them is right now:

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015...-in-louisiana/

And you still haven't explained how "helping" them = bringing them here with NO WAY to know who they are or what their intentions are, putting them on the dole with no prospect of a decent living (just govt handouts), putting their children in a position to fail for the rest of their lives, and leaving them isolated in a community where they are shunned by people that don't want them there in the first place. You are purposely creating environments exactly like Molenbeek, Belgium:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...ects.html?_r=0

What is so wrong with a coalition force creating and securing a refugee zone where they came from? Why do you liberals have such a problem with that?

i am not a liberal, or a spokesperson for them. i represent only myself. now, you can label away if you so wish, but it does nothing for the discussion.
i am for whatever it takes to take care of the issues over there.
in no way am i advocating for refugees to come and remain here.
what we do need to do however is our level best to get things taken care of so those millions can go back to where they were.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by jms62

Different time different set of refugee's. I'm not a betting man but I am willing to bet the refugee's that your family came in with weren't infiltrated with those wanting to and willing to invoke acts of terror and kill as many of us as possible.

you might want to go study what has been said about every migrant wave ever here.
that's why i posted the article that included the tale of the boatload of jewish people.

[OldDog]

Not helpful to the relocate refugees to the US crowd -

“Apparently they are scared of widows and orphans coming into the United States of America,” Obama said of the GOP. “At first, they were too scared of the press being too tough on them in the debates. Now they are scared of three year old orphans. That doesn’t seem so tough to me.”

"A female terrorist wearing a suicide vest has blown herself up and another jihadi was killed by a grenade during a six-hour siege on a flat where police believe the Paris massacres mastermind and six other ISIS terrorists were hiding."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...operation.html
(but not before she took out a heroic police dog
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...mic-State-ISIS )

Eight ISIS suspects posing as refugees arrested at Istanbul airport
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...mid-ISIS-fears

The enemy within. Nearly SEVENTY are arrested in America over ISIS plots - and they include refugees who had been given safe haven but 'turned to terror'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ed-terror.html

and from right-wing hate website, ABC News:
US May Have Let 'Dozens' of Terrorists Into Country As Refugees
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/al-qae...ry?id=20931131

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Danzig

you might want to go study what has been said about every migrant wave ever here.
that's why i posted the article that included the tale of the boatload of jewish people.

Different time Zig.. What was said historically but the current reality being reported is that refugee's are being infiltrated . Are you saying that isn't the case?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by jms62

Different time Zig.. What was said historically but the current reality being reported is that refugee's are being infiltrated . Are you saying that isn't the case?

of course that is something that would have to be watched for.
but to reject all because one might be bad?
that's exactly what they said about those jewish people on the boat. and yes, it's a different time, but it's still people. are we to allow fear to rule? to have the same mindset, while ignoring how much better we are able to find out things then back then?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by OldDog

Not helpful to the relocate refugees to the US crowd -

“Apparently they are scared of widows and orphans coming into the United States of America,” Obama said of the GOP. “At first, they were too scared of the press being too tough on them in the debates. Now they are scared of three year old orphans. That doesn’t seem so tough to me.”

"A female terrorist wearing a suicide vest has blown herself up and another jihadi was killed by a grenade during a six-hour siege on a flat where police believe the Paris massacres mastermind and six other ISIS terrorists were hiding."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...operation.html
(but not before she took out a heroic police dog
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...mic-State-ISIS )

Eight ISIS suspects posing as refugees arrested at Istanbul airport
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...mid-ISIS-fears

The enemy within. Nearly SEVENTY are arrested in America over ISIS plots - and they include refugees who had been given safe haven but 'turned to terror'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ed-terror.html

and from right-wing hate website, ABC News:
US May Have Let 'Dozens' of Terrorists Into Country As Refugees
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/al-qae...ry?id=20931131

don't forget, they might be able to get guns here too.

[Danzig]

and here's some info on thought processes from ww2 and after, regarding who should be allowed in....

In the early months, and first few years after the war, beginning in mid-1945, [there were] only a very limited number of immigration visas to get into the United States.


Of all the [Holocaust] survivors in the camps, only a few thousand came in in [the] first year or so. To get a visa was a precious commodity, and there were immigration policymakers in Washington who were on record saying that they didn't think the Jews should be let in because they were "lazy people" or "entitled people" and they didn't want them in.

But there were many, many thousands of Nazi collaborators who got visas to the United States while the survivors did not — even though they had been, for instance, the head of a Nazi concentration camp, the warden at a camp, or the secret police chief in Lithuania who signed the death warrants for people. ...

The bulk of the people who got into the United States — some were from Germany itself, some in fact were senior officers in the Nazi party under Hitler — but more were the Nazi collaborators.

the times are different? not really. neither are the arguments made.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Danzig

and here's some info on thought processes from ww2 and after, regarding who should be allowed in....

In the early months, and first few years after the war, beginning in mid-1945, [there were] only a very limited number of immigration visas to get into the United States.


Of all the [Holocaust] survivors in the camps, only a few thousand came in in [the] first year or so. To get a visa was a precious commodity, and there were immigration policymakers in Washington who were on record saying that they didn't think the Jews should be let in because they were "lazy people" or "entitled people" and they didn't want them in.

But there were many, many thousands of Nazi collaborators who got visas to the United States while the survivors did not — even though they had been, for instance, the head of a Nazi concentration camp, the warden at a camp, or the secret police chief in Lithuania who signed the death warrants for people. ...

The bulk of the people who got into the United States — some were from Germany itself, some in fact were senior officers in the Nazi party under Hitler — but more were the Nazi collaborators.

the times are different? not really. neither are the arguments made.

Did those collaborators get in while the war was still in progress? Clear out a space in Syria for the Refugees and provide protection. Allow them in and they certainly be infiltrated. But we know that when on of those with terror on their mind creates a horrific act those supporting allowing them in will either disappear from the debate or blame someone else for not keeping us safe.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by jms62

Did those collaborators get in while the war was still in progress? Clear out a space in Syria for the Refugees and provide protection. Allow them in and they certainly be infiltrated. But we know that when on of those with terror on their mind creates a horrific act those supporting allowing them in will either disappear from the debate or blame someone else for not keeping us safe.

i'm not sure who got here while it was going on.
but i do know jews were turned away, and many ended up dying in concentration camps.
isis can try, with or without refugees (some already here by the way) to get over here.
every deed done can have both positive and negative consequences. all things have to be considered, and all we can do is try our best.
but i cannot countenance saying NO across the board, because something may happen.
if we considered what may happen, worst case scenario, with everything....well, no one would get out of bed in the morning.

but, yeah, best case would be if they all could be temporarily put somewhere, and can return home after.
but i have difficulty in just saying no-because i wouldn't want to be told that if i was one in need of help.
no one wants anyone here hurt or killed-no one.

[Danzig]

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/abdelhami...raid-officials

paris attack mastermind dead in the raid yesterday. thank goodness they got them before they could carry out another attack.


and....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...urn-them-away/

French President Francois Hollande declared on Wednesday that his country would accept 30,000 Syrian refugees over next two years. He announced this at a gathering of mayors from French cities, where he received a standing ovation.


"We have to reinforce our borders while remaining true to our values," the French president said.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by jms62

Did those collaborators get in while the war was still in progress? Clear out a space in Syria for the Refugees and provide protection. Allow them in and they certainly be infiltrated. But we know that when on of those with terror on their mind creates a horrific act those supporting allowing them in will either disappear from the debate or blame someone else for not keeping us safe.

No, the US gov't brought them in, whitewashed their backgrounds and sent them to work for NASA:

http://www.businessinsider.com/nazi-...program-2014-2

My stepmom can tell you stories about refugee camps (she and my brothers spent a year in one before being cleared to go to the US). They are NOT safe places. Especially for young women. And, from my stepmom's stories, the danger wasn't from the other refugees; it was from the men hired to (supposedly) protect the refugees.

[GenuineRisk]

The French are still committed to taking in refugees:

http://gawker.com/france-would-still...ess-1743284749

As the comments section said, "Ah, the French. Making us look even more like the backwards rubes we often are with that effortless grace and élan.... I blame the metric system."

(blah blah the French are racist too, yes, I know, I've been there. But this is how you give a middle finger to terrorism, not the cowering that the Governor of the great Welfare State of Alabama is doing)

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

The French are still committed to taking in refugees:

http://gawker.com/france-would-still...ess-1743284749

As the comments section said, "Ah, the French. Making us look even more like the backwards rubes we often are with that effortless grace and élan.... I blame the metric system."

(blah blah the French are racist too, yes, I know, I've been there. But this is how you give a middle finger to terrorism, not the cowering that the Governor of the great Welfare State of Alabama is doing)

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

No, the US gov't brought them in, whitewashed their backgrounds and sent them to work for NASA:

http://www.businessinsider.com/nazi-...program-2014-2

My stepmom can tell you stories about refugee camps (she and my brothers spent a year in one before being cleared to go to the US). They are NOT safe places. Especially for young women. And, from my stepmom's stories, the danger wasn't from the other refugees; it was from the men hired to (supposedly) protect the refugees.

thanks for posting, both the link and your brief story about the camp.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Danzig

thanks for posting, both the link and your brief story about the camp.

My stepmom doesn't talk much about those years (although she talks more about it now than she did 30 years ago when I first knew her), and when she does I can see why she's reluctant to- the stories are really upsetting. We don't push; we let her talk about it as much or little as she wants. My stepbrothers have never talked about it.

I can't fathom the kind of misery and fear that makes someone desperate enough to just pack up and start walking, with no idea what'll be at the other end.

[GenuineRisk]

The other thing is that most of the suspected attackers weren't refugees; they were Europeans who traveled to Syria and then came back:

http://jezebel.com/most-of-the-suspe...nat-1743507304

And, of course, the majority of the 9/11 hijackers were citizens of our ally, Saudi Arabia. They weren't refugees. All but one were here on tourist or business visas (1 on a student visa).

I don't see any GOP candidates or governors suggesting we not allow people in on tourist or business visas, despite the fact that, when one uses facts and not fear-mongering, that's where the danger has historically been, not in refugees.

For that matter, since 2002, white supremacists have killed more people in terrorist attacks in the USA than Muslim radicals. But none of the candidates or governors are talking about that, either.

[Rudeboyelvis]

OMG evil white people. Again. Yawn.

[Pants II]

Genuine RISK how many whites live in the United States compared to the innocent po' widdle muswims?

Stupid liberals. Cowards who are suicidal that want us to die with them.

[Pants II]

Liberals are the biggest hate mongers on the planet. The difference between them and the 'white supremacists' is that the liberals use Saul Alinsky's playbook of deceit and lies.

His playbook is used in our schools, the media, our politicians, and dumb women on the internet who don't know when to shut the f.uck up.