PA Racing

[jnunan4759]

Just horrible things coming out at the Murray Rojas federal trial. I can't believe they've let it go so far and get so out of hand. I bred and raced in PA for over 20 years until it got to the point I couldn't cover expenses. I'm not going to name names, but it's common knowledge. Stephanie Beattie said in court "Everybody does it". Does that make it right ? No, but you have to make a living. Horrible culture that was let happen by the state.

Most of the medication stuff was not crazy. However, it was all illegal on race day and administered illegally. As far as we know it was not frog juice and snake venom, but sometimes common medications, but administered on race day, very illegal. Often done to farm shippers.

When this is exposed, the public loses trust. The most important thing US Racing, or any racing, must have is trust. If I think a game is crooked or fixed, I'm out.

Unfortunately, I think PA racing is doomed. Nobody wants it. The tracks are all casinos and racing is a burden. The state makes more money on slots and has less administrative costs.

I think it's a disgrace that they have let this stuff go on for so long. People were doping the crap out of horses forever at Keystone/Philly Park/Parx forever. That is why I got out.

[jms62]

"See something say something"

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by jnunan4759

Just horrible things coming out at the Murray Rojas federal trial. I can't believe they've let it go so far and get so out of hand. I bred and raced in PA for over 20 years until it got to the point I couldn't cover expenses. I'm not going to name names, but it's common knowledge. Stephanie Beattie said in court "Everybody does it". Does that make it right ? No, but you have to make a living. Horrible culture that was let happen by the state.

Most of the medication stuff was not crazy. However, it was all illegal on race day and administered illegally. As far as we know it was not frog juice and snake venom, but sometimes common medications, but administered on race day, very illegal. Often done to farm shippers.

When this is exposed, the public loses trust. The most important thing US Racing, or any racing, must have is trust. If I think a game is crooked or fixed, I'm out.

Unfortunately, I think PA racing is doomed. Nobody wants it. The tracks are all casinos and racing is a burden. The state makes more money on slots and has less administrative costs.

I think it's a disgrace that they have let this stuff go on for so long. People were doping the crap out of horses forever at Keystone/Philly Park/Parx forever. That is why I got out.

Have you scene the Florida Busted list? While many of the drugs aren't so called nefarious the sheer breathe of overages on therapeutic "stuff" was staggering.

As one of our fellow board members emailed me yesterday and I quote its the "Wild West" out there. It's not going to change its been this way forever just have to accept it or stop watching. It would cost ungodly amounts of money to have ever horse monitored 24/7 and certified 3rd party vet's being the only ones that could touch them, even then nothing is perfect.

Very hard topic seems like most people are outraged over cheaper horses vs. the "better" stock I guess cheating with slower horses seems more distasteful..I dont know it is what it is people will always cheat IF they think they can get away with it

[jms62]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Have you scene the Florida Busted list? While many of the drugs aren't so called nefarious the sheer breathe of overages on therapeutic "stuff" was staggering.

As one of our fellow board members emailed me yesterday and I quote its the "Wild West" out there. It's not going to change its been this way forever just have to accept it or stop watching. It would cost ungodly amounts of money to have ever horse monitored 24/7 and certified 3rd party vet's being the only ones that could touch them, even then nothing is perfect.

Very hard topic seems like most people are outraged over cheaper horses vs. the "better" stock I guess cheating with slower horses seems more distasteful..I dont know it is what it is people will always cheat IF they think they can get away with it

I think the pressure has to come from the owners if we want any change. Right now it is an arms race. You get caught your assistant takes over. What I think has some teeth is you get caught ALL horses under your care are not allowed to run (hopefully anywhere) if tracks get together even if transferred to another barn. Just my opinion, coming at it from a different angle which I think will work.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by jms62

I think the pressure has to come from the owners if we want any change. Right now it is an arms race. You get caught your assistant takes over. What I think has some teeth is you get caught ALL horses under your care are not allowed to run (hopefully anywhere) if tracks get together even if transferred to another barn. Just my opinion, coming at it from a different angle which I think will work.

First of all there is due process after you get "caught", that can take months, so during that time your horses aren't going anywhere nor should they be right?

[jms62]

Originally Posted by freddymo

First of all there is due process after you get "caught", that can take months, so during that time your horses aren't going anywhere nor should they be right?

Of course not Freddie I understand due process. Once you are convicted all horses under your care at the time of the violation even if transferred. The object here is to have those paying the bills put the pressure on the trainers to play by the rules. Hopefully if you summarily discard my idea you will counter with one of your own cause the status quo isn't where we should be.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by jms62

Of course not Freddie I understand due process. Once you are convicted all horses under your care at the time of the violation even if transferred. The object here is to have those paying the bills put the pressure on the trainers to play by the rules. Hopefully if you summarily discard my idea you will counter with one of your own cause the status quo isn't where we should be.

What makes you think owners arent the people putting the pressure on the trainers to cheat?
Shock waving a horse can be therapeutic, although I would assume time in mant situations, would serve just as well, but time is expensive. People are funny they hear some nickel rag claimer is shock waved to run better etc. and they are outraged, Nyquist not so much, he had to make it back faster to run in important stakes and that seems OK with many. I dont distinguish the two but thats just me

[jms62]

Originally Posted by freddymo

What makes you think owners arent the people putting the pressure on the trainers to cheat?
Shock waving a horse can be therapeutic, although I would assume time in mant situations, would serve just as well, but time is expensive. People are funny they hear some nickel rag claimer is shock waved to run better etc. and they are outraged, Nyquist not so much, he had to make it back faster to run in important stakes and that seems OK with many. I dont distinguish the two but thats just me

Never said they were putting pressure on them to cheat but we can both agree they certainly are not putting pressure on them NOT TO. I am saying there are owners using trainers we all know are suspect and they are in lifetime don't ask don't tell mode. They control the purse strings and that is the only pressure I believe that has the power to change. Of course this is my opinion..

[jnunan4759]

One thing that sticks out is that this is a Federal case. No state charges were filed, that I know of. The state regulates and controls racing and wagering in the state. Do they just ignore all this ?

Once they started simulcasting over state lines, they opened the door to Federal laws, including the RICO statutes. These things are not done by one person.

All the witnesses have plead out and flipped in this case.

[freddymo]

Some people cheat and get busted but it probably only happens at Penn Nat :
PA source: Jury finds Penn National trainer Murray Rojas guilty on 14 of 21 counts in federal case alleging fraud, conspiracy & misbranding

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Some people cheat and get busted but it probably only happens at Penn Nat :
PA source: Jury finds Penn National trainer Murray Rojas guilty on 14 of 21 counts in federal case alleging fraud, conspiracy & misbranding

Gosh Fred.. If only you were an attorney or journalist, you might be able to accurately reflect the outcome..

[Kasept]

Most have been reading an utterly agenda-filled version of events (paid for by backers of Federal intervention)..

Here's a summary of Jury Verdict in Rojas Case by attorneys:

On Friday, June 30, 2017, the jury in the U.S. District Court for the Middle District of Pennsylvania entered its finding in the pending criminal case against horse trainer Murray Rojas.

The jury found that Ms. Rojas was not guilty of the core and heart of the government’s case, the six (6) counts of wire fraud and the one (1) count of conspiracy to commit wire fraud that were brought against her. The attorney for Ms. Rojas considers this decision a resounding victory for not only Rojas but also for all horsemen.

However, the jury did find Ms. Rojas guilty on the charges of misbranding animal drugs and a count of conspiracy to commit misbranding. Ms. Rojas' defense counsel stated that the jury verdict was a strong victory because the most troubling charges involving wire fraud are by statute very broad and all inclusive type charges that have been used successfully in the past. The misbranding charges are very specific and the elements of these charges were not proven during the trial.

The government asserted that Ms. Rojas committed the crime of misbranding (and, conspiracy to misbrand) by instructing licensed veterinarians to “administer” animal drugs to race horses (owned or trained by Rojas) on race day. The attorneys for Ms. Rojas state that this does not constitute the crime of misbranding (or conspiracy to commit same) because both the relevant statute relied upon, to wit, 21 U.S.C. 353(f)(1)(C), and the extant case law, applies only to pharmacists or others who sell or “dispense” drugs to others, as does not apply to veterinarians or trainers who administer drugs to their horses. Thus, the use of this statute was improper overreaching by the government.

Not only did the government fail to prove that Ms. Rojas personally dispensed any animal drugs, but it affirmatively introduced evidence that the licensed co-conspirator veterinarians (who were under extreme pressure to testify in a most favorable way for the government under plea deals) did not “dispense” any drugs in this case either. Never in the history of criminal law has the crime of misbranding been used to convict anyone under these circumstances because these circumstances do not fit within the elements necessary to establish such crime.

It appears to the defense that the government went to unprecedented and extraordinary lengths to invent a violation in order to prosecute this trainer. The defense for Ms. Rojas is convinced that Ms. Rojas will be vindicated upon appeal of this matter which they intend to file in the coming days.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Gosh Fred.. If only you were an attorney or journalist, you might be able to accurately reflect the outcome..

The good news is this is isolated to Penn National. Fans of sport and bettors can rest assure that this stuff is specific to Penn Nat. and NEVER happens outside that bubble of madness. Carry on,back to daily programming, nothing to see here, its isolated.

[Kasept]

An additional note on the 'reporting' of the case.. Ray Paulick attended the trial but did not speak to Goldman, spending all his time with the attorneys for the government prosecuting this case and only attending while the prosecution presented its side and not while the defense put on evidence showing while this was an improper prosecution.



That seems like a fair and equitable journalistic approach..

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Most have been reading an utterly agenda-filled version of events (paid for by backers of Federal intervention)..

Here's a summary of Jury Verdict in Rojas Case by attorneys:

On Friday, June 30, 2017, the jury in the U.S. District Court for the Middle District of Pennsylvania entered its finding in the pending criminal case against horse trainer Murray Rojas.

The jury found that Ms. Rojas was not guilty of the core and heart of the government’s case, the six (6) counts of wire fraud and the one (1) count of conspiracy to commit wire fraud that were brought against her. The attorney for Ms. Rojas considers this decision a resounding victory for not only Rojas but also for all horsemen.

However, the jury did find Ms. Rojas guilty on the charges of misbranding animal drugs and a count of conspiracy to commit misbranding. Ms. Rojas' defense counsel stated that the jury verdict was a strong victory because the most troubling charges involving wire fraud are by statute very broad and all inclusive type charges that have been used successfully in the past. The misbranding charges are very specific and the elements of these charges were not proven during the trial.

The government asserted that Ms. Rojas committed the crime of misbranding (and, conspiracy to misbrand) by instructing licensed veterinarians to “administer” animal drugs to race horses (owned or trained by Rojas) on race day. The attorneys for Ms. Rojas state that this does not constitute the crime of misbranding (or conspiracy to commit same) because both the relevant statute relied upon, to wit, 21 U.S.C. 353(f)(1)(C), and the extant case law, applies only to pharmacists or others who sell or “dispense” drugs to others, as does not apply to veterinarians or trainers who administer drugs to their horses. Thus, the use of this statute was improper overreaching by the government.

Not only did the government fail to prove that Ms. Rojas personally dispensed any animal drugs, but it affirmatively introduced evidence that the licensed co-conspirator veterinarians (who were under extreme pressure to testify in a most favorable way for the government under plea deals) did not “dispense” any drugs in this case either. Never in the history of criminal law has the crime of misbranding been used to convict anyone under these circumstances because these circumstances do not fit within the elements necessary to establish such crime.

It appears to the defense that the government went to unprecedented and extraordinary lengths to invent a violation in order to prosecute this trainer. The defense for Ms. Rojas is convinced that Ms. Rojas will be vindicated upon appeal of this matter which they intend to file in the coming days.

Wire fraud, what bettors and fans of the game truly care about.. Thank you for posting the defendants lawyers statement that they expect to win on appeal, I was wondering he they were just going to accept the punishment for the 14 counts he was found guilty on. or continue due process. Good Luck Ms Rojas we are all rooting for you!

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Wire fraud, what bettors and fans of the game truly care about..

The wire fraud was the sole purpose the case was pursued, in an attempt to establish a way to force the industry to accept Federal intervention. I understand that concept is difficult to grasp.

It was not only an overreach, but a perversion, coercing veterinarians without resources to testify and using a fully unreliable witness in Beattie. The taxpayers got bilked out of god knows how many hundreds of thousands to gain a handful of misdemeanors that will be overturned.

But the propagandists got what they wanted, allegations that everyone to ever send a horse out is a cheat.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Kasept

The wire fraud was the sole purpose the case was pursued, in an attempt to establish a way to force the industry to accept Federal intervention. I understand that concept is difficult to grasp.

It was not only an overreach, but a perversion, coercing veterinarians without resources to testify and using a fully unreliable witness in Beattie. The taxpayers got bilked out of god knows how many hundreds of thousands to gain a handful of misdemeanors that will be overturned.

But the propagandists got what they wanted, allegations that everyone to ever send a horse out is a cheat.

On to more meaningful discuss. How about that Gargan claim of Divine Miss Grey? Some folks just have an eye for talent even at the 16k level

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Kasept

The wire fraud was the sole purpose the case was pursued, in an attempt to establish a way to force the industry to accept Federal intervention. I understand that concept is difficult to grasp.

It was not only an overreach, but a perversion, coercing veterinarians without resources to testify and using a fully unreliable witness in Beattie. The taxpayers got bilked out of god knows how many hundreds of thousands to gain a handful of misdemeanors that will be overturned.

But the propagandists got what they wanted, allegations that everyone to ever send a horse out is a cheat.

FTFY:

The GAMBLERS got bilked out of god knows how many hundreds of thousands.. Unless you think Ms Rojas was completely devoid of any wrong doing

[freddymo]

Great news both the Defendants attorney and the Federal Prosecutor are thrilled with the verdict.. Another story book ending :
https://twitter.com/raypaulick/statu...91169895661568

[jnunan4759]

Hmmm.. Interesting stuff. Looked like was a closed case from news going into trial. Dissapointed no news people covered case in PA or anywhere else. Might have gotten a better picture of entire case and witnesses, etc.

I thought it was odd for Paulick to go to Harrisburg, PA for just 2 days. Certainly not his MO to go into the hinterlands chasing a hot scoop.