Chad Brown wow 😳

[Alabama Stakes]

and I always thought help on the backside were on salary per day or week or hoss. $1.6 million is a lot of bread to owe the help.

[ADJMK]

Originally Posted by Alabama Stakes

and I always thought help on the backside were on salary per day or week or hoss. $1.6 million is a lot of bread to owe the help.

Maybe they were entiitled to a % of the winnings. Even if there is more to the story, not a good look.

[Alabama Stakes]

Is that not a ton of bread to owe workers who are making less than a grand a week ? To be that much money awarded in the judgement, it has to be a lot of workers that got screwed a bunch of money, over an extended period.

[Rupert Pupkin]

It will be interesting to see if he was doing anything different from most other trainers with big operations. We will see if he is the only one nailed for this, or if a bunch more of these cases are coming against other trainers.

For anyone that hasn't seen the article, here it is:
https://www.paulickreport.com/news/t...or-violations/

[Kasept]

Nearly every barn in NY is dealing with this in varying degrees.

[Dahoss]

Some of the comments after that article are laugh out loud funny. I always thought Alabama Stakes was the dumbest guy on the internet. I was clearly wrong.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Nearly every barn in NY is dealing with this in varying degrees.

Administrative Judges aren't IMPARTIAL.

Nobody save a few people very close to the case know the facts.

People employed in the industry realize it's not an 8 hour a day job, no different than an UBER driver expecting to make an hourly wage. The difference is racing lobby has not lobbied well enough to set the standards.

Not sure how a guy can have the most successful operation in NY and not have happy (for the most part) high-quality help that feels good about their compensation? Maybe but unlikely.

Smells like a setup.

Smart people like Brown obviously can make mistakes too, and when you are growing attention to detail other than winning clients and races can wain, but we will see?

[moses]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Administrative Judges aren't IMPARTIAL.

Nobody save a few people very close to the case know the facts.

People employed in the industry realize it's not an 8 hour a day job, no different than an UBER driver expecting to make an hourly wage. The difference is racing lobby has not lobbied well enough to set the standards.

Not sure how a guy can have the most successful operation in NY and not have happy (for the most part) high-quality help that feels good about their compensation? Maybe but unlikely.

Smells like a setup.

Smart people like Brown obviously can make mistakes too, and when you are growing attention to detail other than winning clients and races can wain, but we will see?

On the issue of worker satisfaction, the complaint was brought by the US Secretary of Labor (unclear if this was based on worker complaints or not). Most of the allegations are a result of poor record keeping by Brown. The DOL then used Brown’s own records to demonstrate that he didn’t pay his employees the proper amounts. The actual backpay awarded was around $1.2 million ($100,000+ in civil penalties, almost $300,000 in liquidated damages.)

The time frame is also over a 32-month period for 150 employees. Do the math and you’ll realize it’s not a huge amount per day for each employee - but it’s a lot of employees over a long time frame.

It doesn’t seem like this was a mistake by Brown. It seems like it’s industry-wide practice but the federal DOL has decided to crack down on it.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by moses

On the issue of worker satisfaction, the complaint was brought by the US Secretary of Labor. Most of the allegations are a result of poor record keeping by Brown. The DOL then used Brown’s own records to demonstrate that he didn’t pay his employees the proper amounts. The actual backpay awarded was around $1.2 million ($100,000+ in civil penalties, almost $300,000 in liquidated damages.)

The time frame is also over a 32-month period for 150 employees. Do the math and you’ll realize it’s not a huge amount per day for each employee - but it’s a lot of employees over a long time frame.

It doesn’t seem like this was a mistake by Brown. It seems like it’s industry-wide practice, but the federal DOL has decided to crack down on it.

I get it I have been there. I am currently engaged in such with NLRB I know way too much about this stuff. I am shocked Brown has decided to pay the entire award. I guess he just wants to get on with doing what he does best.

My opinion remains the same the industry has done trainers no favors in educating labor depts on how things work. None of that exonerates trainers for doing wrong by workers, but labor depts are notoriously shortsighted

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by freddymo

I get it I have been there. I am currently engaged in such with NLRB I know way too much about this stuff. I am shocked Brown has decided to pay the entire award. I guess he just wants to get on with doing what he does best.

My opinion remains the same the industry has done trainers no favors in educating labor depts on how things work. None of that exonerates trainers for doing wrong by workers, but labor depts are notoriously shortsighted

Sounds like they're giving you a hard time you probably deserve.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

Sounds like they're giving you a hard time you probably deserve.

What do you know about Freddy or his case? I'll answer....nothing.

I'll take my chances that Freddy, who is about as generous a person as anyone would ever hope to meet, is not intentionally taking advantage of others.

I'm wondering how a rush to judgement works for people, overall, in their lives. My guess is not well.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

Sounds like they're giving you a hard time you probably deserve.

It's a long story but its public record so if you wish to read about it on NLRB site you can. The case is NYC Guided Tours LLC. You be the judge. The guy worked 15 shifts for us. they awarded him 105,000, he made 18 bucks an hour plus tips (which he never reported on a tax return). He is a great client for NLRB he has filed 4 cases with them in 7 years. Your taxpayer dollars at work. But hey you want to invest some time to recognize how deranged these things can be, go to school NLRB.gov

be sure to get back to us after you have done your due diligence

[Dawgswin]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Nearly every barn in NY is dealing with this in varying degrees.

Certainly not surprising, because this isn't just an issue for the racing industry. Dept. of Labor's changes to what constitutes a position that can qualify for salary, what constitutes management, etc. have made it no easier on employers.

The agenda seems clear. Someone at NLRB and Department of Labor believes there is a rampant problem with workers not being paid overtime when it is due.

I'm not sure they have data to support that -- but that certainly is driving a lot of this.

[Uncle Daddy]

Serious question.. Could Brown face any discipline or scrutiny from NY commissioners? When you think about some of the charges against Duttrow (filed by owners not drug test related) just wondering if they would view this as bad actions while he is hosted mainly at their tracks

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Uncle Daddy

Serious question.. Could Brown face any discipline or scrutiny from NY commissioners? When you think about some of the charges against Duttrow (filed by owners not drug test related) just wondering if they would view this as bad actions while he is hosted mainly at their tracks

I highly doubt it. The DRF article said that tons of other trainers are going to have to pay fines for the same issues. It said that Linda Rice already paid her fine. But her fine was much smaller.

[Konk]

What no H&R Block's in NYC?
IF the laws are not clear, time to hire someone.
Like millions of other small businesses do all the time.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Konk

What no H&R Block's in NYC?
IF the laws are not clear, time to hire someone.
Like millions of other small businesses do all the time.

I think this is more of a case of the government deciding that they are going to start enforcing laws that they haven't enforced in the past. If they wanted to, they could do the same thing to millions of Americans. For example, most of us have had a housekeeper. Assuming that the housekeeper comes once a week or even once every two weeks, you are supposed to verify that she may legally work in the United States. The reality is that a high percentage of housekeepers are not here legally. The government could technically come after anyone who has employed a housekeeper that is not here legally.

In addition, you are technically supposed to withhold Social Security and Medicare tax from your housekeeper. Practically nobody does that. The government could come after you for that if they wanted to.

Anyway, if the government starts enforcing something out of nowhere, it's going to catch everyone off guard. I think that is the case with these trainers.

[Alabama Stakes]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I think this is more of a case of the government deciding that they are going to start enforcing laws that they haven't enforced in the past. If they wanted to, they could do the same thing to millions of Americans. For example, most of us have had a housekeeper. Assuming that the housekeeper comes once a week or even once every two weeks, you are supposed to verify that she may legally work in the United States. The reality is that a high percentage of housekeepers are not here legally. The government could technically come after anyone who has employed a housekeeper that is not here legally.

In addition, you are technically supposed to withhold Social Security and Medicare tax from your housekeeper. Practically nobody does that. The government could come after you for that if they wanted to.

Anyway, if the government starts enforcing something out of nowhere, it's going to catch everyone off guard. I think that is the case with these trainers.

Are you f ing kidding me?
“Most of us have had a housekeeper? “ really ? I thought most of us cleaned our own freaking house. It’s not that difficult unless you’re a total f ing lazy slob or have money to burn. To insinuate that housekeepers are illegal aliens because that’s their profession is disrespectful. It is good honest work. Furthermore, to suggest that those employing said housekeepers knowingly break the law in doing so is absurd.

Is the defense here, “ oh, I didn’t know ? “ or simply, it’s the way it’s always been done.

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by Alabama Stakes

Are you f ing kidding me?
“Most of us have had a housekeeper? “ really ? I thought most of us cleaned our own freaking house. It’s not that difficult unless you’re a total f ing lazy slob or have money to burn.

Really? How about if you would just rather spend your time doing other things than cleaning the house? "money to burn"? If you bet on horses, is that having "money to burn"? Personally, my wife and I would rather pay someone $50 to spend 2-3 hours cleaning our house than do it ourselves.

To insinuate that housekeepers are illegal aliens because that’s their profession is disrespectful. It is good honest work.

I agree. For sure it's "good honest work". And Rupert's "high percentage of" should have been "some".

Furthermore, to suggest that those employing said housekeepers knowingly break the law in doing so is absurd.

Where did Rupert say anything about those employers "knowingly" breaking the law?

[Alabama Stakes]

When he said practically no one holds back social security or Medicare tax, knowing that they should. To me that is knowingly . They know they should , but don’t.p