California moves forward on stricter drug penalties

[smartyalex]

http://www.drf.com/news/article/81765.html

.....I wish all State Racing Boards could agree on a zero tollerance stance on all drugs!! Well, at least it's a start...Thanks CA!

[Cannon Shell]

Instituting a 28 day withdrawl for clenbuterol is a joke. This is a legal medication that is used to treat a common problem, especially in a state that has a poor as air quality as S. cal does. They are going to kill the sport with thinking like this. You want to make the withdrawl a week? No problem, but in a state that is already hurting for horses taking horses that have lung infections out of circulation for a month is stupid.
We all know the steroid thing was coming and I do believe that there is abuse of these but a complete ban will also serve to shrink the horse population further.
Changing rules due to public perception usually leads to knee jerk reactions like this. Instead of trying to make workable rules that make sense they come up with ideas that may kill their product.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Instituting a 28 day withdrawl for clenbuterol is a joke. This is a legal medication that is used to treat a common problem, especially in a state that has a poor as air quality as S. cal does. They are going to kill the sport with thinking like this. You want to make the withdrawl a week? No problem, but in a state that is already hurting for horses taking horses that have lung infections out of circulation for a month is stupid.
We all know the steroid thing was coming and I do believe that there is abuse of these but a complete ban will also serve to shrink the horse population further.
Changing rules due to public perception usually leads to knee jerk reactions like this. Instead of trying to make workable rules that make sense they come up with ideas that may kill their product.

I guess this is easier than attempting a real solution like finding out what illegal or " unknown " medications are being used and developing a test for them.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I guess this is easier than attempting a real solution like finding out what illegal or " unknown " medications are being used and developing a test for them.

It is so typical of the CHRB in response to the terrible job that they have done to place the blame on trainers and horses.
Here is what Richard Shapiro is really saying," We have done such a terrible job here at the CHRB in regulating the sport we have decided to abolish all trainers and horses and run computer simulations in their place. It is our finding that there are just too many physical problems with real horses, and with all those pesky medications that mask other pesky medications that those cheating trainers have cooked up in their home based chemistry labs, we just have lost control. Our informant (the guy who sold horses from france that never showed up here but charged the owners for training for 2 years and was given back his license in order to be a snitch for the CHRB) says that outside BALCO and Pvals house, there are no bigger drug dens in CA than Santa Anita and Hollywood Park. So we decided to just get rid of the trainers and all their problems and all the horses and their problems and just run some computer simulation that all the "fans" will bet on anyway. I mean one of the most suspect trainers called them names and they STILL showed up and played his horses so maybe he had a point. We still haven't come up with a penalty schedule for computer viruses but I doubt the fans will even notice this as they barely noticed how badly we were screwing up for years. We also will be saving the state a ton of money by not having any CHRB employees , and being that very few of them did anything anyway, I'm sure Arnold will be very pleased with us and maybe he can get me a job with his friends at the indian casino when my term expires."

[blackthroatedwind]

I don't pay a lot of attention to California racing, but wasn't the " polytrack mandate " yet another kneejerk reaction, and not necessarily what was best for everyone?

What's the difference...we're all idiots...at least in California.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

This drug (Clenbuterol) not only builds muscle, but increases lung capacity and acts as a stimulant. This drug is constantly talked about on body building sites.They talk about it as if it is something to use along with the anabolic steroids they use. Be nice if the drug was just used for breathing problems.It has many "uses." That is the problem.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

This drug (Clenbuterol) not only builds muscle, but increases lung capacity and acts as a stimulant. This drug is constantly talked about on body building sites.They talk about it as if it is something to use along with the anabolic steroids they use. Be nice if the drug was just used for breathing problems.It has many "uses." That is the problem.

It's effectiveness with regard to anabolic effects in horses are questionable. It would act as a stimulant if given an hour before a race, 28 days is a joke. It is a LEGAL drug produced in the USA and used LEGALLY by humans with asthma. I dont think that people understand that if you take away all means to help horses in regards to physical issues both minor and major, you are hurting the smaller owners and trainers who can not afford to give their horses extended periods of rest all the time. Ban steroids totally and you increase the time it takes for horses recovering from surgery. Which costs more money which makes an already unstable investment more unprofitable. All that crap about helping the breed is a lot of BS.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Didn't they have trouble with teenagers using this drug to win awards at Livestock shows? Their steers were lookin' mighty good.Are you saying it is not used to put muscle on horses? Isn't this the reason they would want such a long withdrawal period before races?

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

It is so typical of the CHRB in response to the terrible job that they have done to place the blame on trainers and horses.
Here is what Richard Shapiro is really saying," We have done such a terrible job here at the CHRB in regulating the sport we have decided to abolish all trainers and horses and run computer simulations in their place. It is our finding that there are just too many physical problems with real horses, and with all those pesky medications that mask other pesky medications that those cheating trainers have cooked up in their home based chemistry labs, we just have lost control. Our informant (the guy who sold horses from france that never showed up here but charged the owners for training for 2 years and was given back his license in order to be a snitch for the CHRB) says that outside BALCO and Pvals house, there are no bigger drug dens in CA than Santa Anita and Hollywood Park. So we decided to just get rid of the trainers and all their problems and all the horses and their problems and just run some computer simulation that all the "fans" will bet on anyway. I mean one of the most suspect trainers called them names and they STILL showed up and played his horses so maybe he had a point. We still haven't come up with a penalty schedule for computer viruses but I doubt the fans will even notice this as they barely noticed how badly we were screwing up for years. We also will be saving the state a ton of money by not having any CHRB employees , and being that very few of them did anything anyway, I'm sure Arnold will be very pleased with us and maybe he can get me a job with his friends at the indian casino when my term expires."

I don't think Rick Shapiro needs to get a job from Arnold. Rick is a very wealthy man. He is a multi-millionaire. He and his family have been in the horseracing business for 40 years.

I agree with you that the CHRB has done a very poor job over the years. But I think this new CHRB headed by Rick Shapiro has done a great job. He has only been on the job for a few years and he has not been afraid to push for aggressive changes. With the past CHRBs, it was always business as usual. They never did anything. They would never make any changes. Rick is the first guy to get in there and make major changes. I'm glad they are being proactive. There is always risk when you push for agressive reform, but I think that most of the changes they are making are positive.

By the way, it's not as if Shapiro is making these decisions on his own with no input. Richard Mandella and Dr. Arthur are both on the medication committee. I assume that Mandella and Arthur both agree with the new medication rules. In fact, I bet that they are the ones that came up with these new rules.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I don't pay a lot of attention to California racing, but wasn't the " polytrack mandate " yet another kneejerk reaction, and not necessarily what was best for everyone?

What's the difference...we're all idiots...at least in California.

The polytrack mandate may have been somewhat of a kneejerk reaction but it is the best thing that has ever happened here. Desperate measures are necessary when you have a desperate situation. It was just too difficult to keep horses sound on the surfaces out here. Maybe they could have put in new dirt tracks instead of polytrack, but I'm not going to complain. All I know is that polytrack is a huge improvement over what he had before. They had to do something to stop the bleeding. I don't know if this was the best way to stop the bleeding, but at least the bleeding has been stopped.

[smartyalex]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

This drug (Clenbuterol) not only builds muscle, but increases lung capacity and acts as a stimulant. This drug is constantly talked about on body building sites.They talk about it as if it is something to use along with the anabolic steroids they use. Be nice if the drug was just used for breathing problems.It has many "uses." That is the problem.

Thank you SCUD! Very well put!

[Left Bank]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

It's effectiveness with regard to anabolic effects in horses are questionable. It would act as a stimulant if given an hour before a race, 28 days is a joke. It is a LEGAL drug produced in the USA and used LEGALLY by humans with asthma. I dont think that people understand that if you take away all means to help horses in regards to physical issues both minor and major, you are hurting the smaller owners and trainers who can not afford to give their horses extended periods of rest all the time. Ban steroids totally and you increase the time it takes for horses recovering from surgery. Which costs more money which makes an already unstable investment more unprofitable. All that crap about helping the breed is a lot of BS.

In regards to physical issues,How about getting after the breeders for a better product?

[The Bid]

Scud

Clenbutorol is used to drop water weight in a cutting cycle, its not used to add mass, or strength for bodybuilders. Its strictly for reducing.

You do crash off of clen however, and I think horses crash off it as well.

Come to think of it Clen and DNP would be great for a rider to use to reduce, not a female though. The DNP is too strong, but the clen if used the right way is useful.

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by The Bid

Scud

Clenbutorol is used to drop water weight in a cutting cycle, its not used to add mass, or strength for bodybuilders. Its strictly for reducing.

You do crash off of clen however, and I think horses crash off it as well.

Come to think of it Clen and DNP would be great for a rider to use to reduce, not a female though. The DNP is too strong, but the clen if used the right way is useful.

it's the latest diet craze in teenage girls...I read an article about a month ago ...I think some kid died using it

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by The Bid

Scud

Clenbutorol is used to drop water weight in a cutting cycle, its not used to add mass, or strength for bodybuilders. Its strictly for reducing.

You do crash off of clen however, and I think horses crash off it as well.

Come to think of it Clen and DNP would be great for a rider to use to reduce, not a female though. The DNP is too strong, but the clen if used the right way is useful.

So,it doesn't build new muscle? It decreases body fat(making one appear more muscular?) I have seen it called a synthetic growth enhancer.I would expect that to mean it adds muscle,but maybe it just reduces body fat.It is obvious that they want to avoid these effects,and it would probably be the reason they want the long(28 day) withdrawal period.My guess is they will negotiate this down to the 7 days that the Chucksta is talking about(as being reasonable.)BTW is this the drug that Scott Lake over-used so much that he is on the sidelines?

[The Bid]

Thats interested PJ and Scud. Ive never seen that article, but I know first hand the stuff is potent. I will still run a cycle of clen with a few different things but for anyone who doesnt know how to use it, its deadly. The DNP is worse. Hopefully the young highschool girls wont get their hands on that stuff.

Ive always thought horses crash just like I would off the clen. Which is why trianers who use the clen up until last cut off date are hard to take off. If you fail to continue the clen use the horse will be flat as a pancake.

[The Bid]

I dont know what Lake uses, or doesnt use. I know if you take off him you better continue to use whatever he does or the horse will be flat as a pancake

Ive always used clen to cut, never to add any muscle at all. It just gets rid of extra weight. I also think a lot of the reason horses bleed with such frequency is because of the steroids they use. I know EQ, or DECA used in excess can cause a horse to bleed. Trainers will use EQ, DECA, WINSTROL, TRENBOLONE, then think a little KY red, or Lasix is going to to the trick, not all the time. All of those drugs will cause a horse to bleed, especially when used in conjunction. I will often wake up with a nosebleed when cycling through the aforementioned.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

So,it doesn't build new muscle? It decreases body fat(making one appear more muscular?) I have seen it called a synthetic growth enhancer.I would expect that to mean it adds muscle,but maybe it just reduces body fat.It is obvious that they want to avoid these effects,and it would probably be the reason they want the long(28 day) withdrawal period.My guess is they will negotiate this down to the 7 days that the Chucksta is talking about(as being reasonable.)BTW is this the drug that Scott Lake over-used so much that he is on the sidelines?

Is there an equivalent in horses of Human Growth Hormone (HGH) also used in bodybuilding & fitness competitions?

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by The Bid

Scud

Clenbutorol is used to drop water weight in a cutting cycle, its not used to add mass, or strength for bodybuilders. Its strictly for reducing.

You do crash off of clen however, and I think horses crash off it as well.

Come to think of it Clen and DNP would be great for a rider to use to reduce, not a female though. The DNP is too strong, but the clen if used the right way is useful.

that's not actually true in humans...because the drug will stop working over time...but it will also phuck up your metabolism and consequently you gain weight and can't lose it...not to mention that in addition to buring excess fat there is evidence that it also burns excess protein which will actually contribute to muscle wasting, and of course long term use causes collagen fibers to infiltrate heart muscle and cause it to stiffen leading to reduced cardiac output and potential heart attack...bodybuilders who use it don't really understand the long term potential effects.

and the same could be said for horsemen who overuse it....

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by paisjpq

that's not actually true in humans...because the drug will stop working over time...but it will also phuck up your metabolism and consequently you gain weight and can't lose it...not to mention that in addition to buring excess fat there is evidence that it also burns excess protein which will actually contribute to muscle wasting, and of course long term use causes collagen fibers to infiltrate heart muscle and cause it to stiffen leading to reduced cardiac output and potential heart attack...bodybuilders who use it don't really understand the long term potential effects.

and the same could be said for horsemen who overuse it....

This is what happens when they take away their ephedrine!