Next Big Stallion? What is your opinion?

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by Hoisttheflag

I don't know how true that is if you really looked closely at it. Depending on my mares, I would be more inclined to save the $7500 and go with Honour & Glory. I want to see how that Orientate colt out of the Storm Cat mare Contrive pans out. I still think they will be sprinters but I could be wrong.

yeah I'm looking for that half to folklore too. I do agree that most of his good ones will be sprinters but look at what some other "sprint" sires have been able to do with the right mare. (and who knows in a year or two you may get him for 7500 less LOL)

Originally Posted by paisjpq

yeah I'm looking for that half to folklore too. I do agree that most of his good ones will be sprinters but look at what some other "sprint" sires have been able to do with the right mare. (and who knows in a year or two you may get him for 7500 less LOL)

I think his fee goes up. His foals are gorgeous, but I want to see how far they go.

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by Hoisttheflag

I think his fee goes up. His foals are gorgeous, but I want to see how far they go.

agreed--i was kidding. the ones I've seen are beautiful, and sane too (no small feat with the mares they are out of).

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I'm obviously not going be able to tell you exactly what a horse will accomplish in his career based on an 1/8th of a mile work. There's no way to do that. I'm not trying to do that. I am trying to pick out stakes horses and if I'm right around 35% of the time, then I'm doing really well. I would expect all the horses I pick to be able to run. I would estimate that around 70% of the horses I pick will be able to break their maiden in their first couple of starts unless they are horses that look like they want to run really long.

If you could add heart with the obvious athletes, then that 35% would go way up. I am very partial to horses that dont quit, especially after big setbacks. The problem is figuring out which horses they are. And that of course is done on the track.

But who cares about all this. I wanna see athletes compete on the track, not in the shed. Thats why the thread is interesting, but at the same time a bit disconcerting.
But I understand the fascination as genetics is a very inexact science. One day someone is going to find the combination of genes that have the highest probability of making good runners. Then all hell will break loose. They are mapping the Thoroughbred genome as we speak. In fact, they may be done. Cornell was coordinating and distributing the work. It will be interesting to see how people take this data and try to correlate it with performance. Its coming.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Hoisttheflag

I am just not a believer in them being anything but sprinters. He had arguably the best mares out there and I just thought they would be a little more impressive. I probably set the expectations too high on him but he will always be nothing more than a sprinter to me. I probably will eat my words on this one next year when they turn 3, but I still am not a believer.

I actually heard the same thing about Orientate getting the best mares.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by pgardn

If you could add heart with the obvious athletes, then that 35% would go way up. I am very partial to horses that dont quit, especially after big setbacks. The problem is figuring out which horses they are. And that of course is done on the track.

But who cares about all this. I wanna see athletes compete on the track, not in the shed. Thats why the thread is interesting, but at the same time a bit disconcerting.
But I understand the fascination as genetics is a very inexact science. One day someone is going to find the combination of genes that have the highest probability of making good runners. Then all hell will break loose. They are mapping the Thoroughbred genome as we speak. In fact, they may be done. Cornell was coordinating and distributing the work. It will be interesting to see how people take this data and try to correlate it with performance. Its coming.

I agree that there is no way to know how much heart a horse has from watching them work an 1/8th of a mile at a sale.
With regard to breeding, it's really not that important to me who a horse is by. If I like the way a horse works at a sale, I'm going to be interested in him no matter who he is by. One of the best horses I ever bought was by a sire that I knew very little about.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by paisjpq

yeah I'm looking for that half to folklore too. I do agree that most of his good ones will be sprinters but look at what some other "sprint" sires have been able to do with the right mare. (and who knows in a year or two you may get him for 7500 less LOL)

It was B. Wayne Hughes who bought the half-brother to Folklore. He paid $900,000 for that colt. I believe that Richard Mandella will be the trainer.

[LARHAGE]

Originally Posted by Hoisttheflag

For another $20K you can get Afleet Alex on the same farm. Not impressed with Orientates on the track right now.

I would rather breed two mares to Orientate than one mare to Afleet Alex, who himself is not as well conformed as Orientate, his pedigree is a lot weaker as well.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

You are right. Orientate is a very well-built, classy-looking animal.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by LARHAGE

I would rather breed two mares to Orientate than one mare to Afleet Alex, who himself is not as well conformed as Orientate, his pedigree is a lot weaker as well.

Orientate is definitely the best looking stallion at Gainesway.

[Cajungator26]

Actually, you know the more I look at Orientate, I love his build, but I'm not a huge fan of his legs. He doesn't appear to have a whole lot of bone there and he looks pretty fragile (although he retired sound after a good year of racing at 4.) Of course I've never seen the horse up close, but that's what it looks like to me.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

I think he has a great column of bone. I know why you said that, but it isn't the problem. The problem is that his cannon bones are too long which makes his legs look thinner than they really are. That would have made him a little more prone to tendon injuries. He also may be just a touch calf-kneed, but his legs are clean enough. He's a lot better than a whole lot of them. He retired sound, and that is good enough for me. Besides, all of his two year olds look like very well built, strong horses, and that is all that matters. Well that and the fact that they can fly!

[Buffymommy]

Haven't followed breeding that much, just kinda interested in it lately, but does anyone know how Budda is doing as a sire? I thought I had heard that his babies were beautiful.

Originally Posted by Buffymommy

Haven't followed breeding that much, just kinda interested in it lately, but does anyone know how Budda is doing as a sire? I thought I had heard that his babies were beautiful.

Lenaro, one of Buddha's looked really impressive in his romp at Churchill in a MSW. I think Buddha is going to be a great stallion.

[Buffymommy]

Originally Posted by boldruler

Lenaro, one of Buddha's looked really impressive in his romp at Churchill in a MSW. I think Buddha is going to be a great stallion.

That is great to hear. Horse was my derby pick that year. Loved his fight with Medalia D' Oro in his last prep. LOVED it.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

I think he has a great column of bone. I know why you said that, but it isn't the problem. The problem is that his cannon bones are too long which makes his legs look thinner than they really are. That would have made him a little more prone to tendon injuries. He also may be just a touch calf-kneed, but his legs are clean enough. He's a lot better than a whole lot of them. He retired sound, and that is good enough for me. Besides, all of his two year olds look like very well built, strong horses, and that is all that matters. Well that and the fact that they can fly!

Jessica, check out the shoulder on this guy...

http://www.marylandstallions.com/Bowman.html

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Buffymommy

Haven't followed breeding that much, just kinda interested in it lately, but does anyone know how Budda is doing as a sire? I thought I had heard that his babies were beautiful.

The Budha 2 year olds looked terrible. I think I only saw one decent one out of about 20 of his offspring. I was joking with my trainer that Budha looks like this year's Freud. In 2005, practically every horse by Freud looked terrible. Budha is the Freud of 2006.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

The Budha 2 year olds looked terrible. I think I only saw one decent one out of about 20 of his offspring. I was joking with my trainer that Budha looks like this year's Freud. In 2005, practically every horse by Freud looked terrible. Budha is the Freud of 2006.

I wasn't much of a fan of Buddha although I always liked Unbridled. The combination of Unbridled Song and Storm Cat in his pedigree probably doesn't leave much hope for a sound horse. JMO of course.

[JJP]

Best inexpensive stallion? Pioneering, who's a 1/2 to Storm Cat. His offspring handle dirt, turf and slop. May have some distance limitations at the classic distances but how many horses are going to run in the Triple Crown?

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Actually, you know the more I look at Orientate, I love his build, but I'm not a huge fan of his legs. He doesn't appear to have a whole lot of bone there and he looks pretty fragile (although he retired sound after a good year of racing at 4.) Of course I've never seen the horse up close, but that's what it looks like to me.

I've never been up close to him either but I have worked with some of his yearlings and I must say they do come up a bit light (at least the ones I've seen) and they also have long cannons like dad. I'm not saying it is or isn't a problem but I prefer a more sturdy looking individual JMO.