Another Confusing Decision from the NY Stewards

[whodey17]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Within reason. A Mott 2YO ducked out badly on the backstretch of a grass race last summer, and badly interfered with two horses, and was justifiably taken down. It's a judgement call.

Gotcha. I remember several years ago at SA in a 2 furlong race my horse got taken down because he went from the 10 path all the way to the rail. I wasnt happy but it was DQ was justified.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by whodey17

Yes you can tell that while watching the head on re-play. But put yourself in Coa's shoes. Maybe he didnt see it that way. It is easy to play armchair QB.

But...these guys are professionals. They do this for a living. They are trusted to make the right decisions out there. For their safety...for the safety of their horse...for the safety of other jocks. Being on a 1,000lb animal at 30mph is NOT the place to be taking retaliation...

Stupid, stupid decision by Coa....and again, I am an admitted fan as I have had great luck with him in the past. This incident does shed a new light on him for me though.

[whodey17]

Originally Posted by GPK

But...these guys are professionals. They do this for a living. They are trusted to make the right decisions out there. For their safety...for the safety of their horse...for the safety of other jocks. Being on a 1,000lb animal at 30mph is NOT the place to be taking retaliation...

Stupid, stupid decision by Coa....and again, I am an admitted fan as I have had great luck with him in the past. This incident does shed a new light on him for me though.

I agree with you 100% and this is why he got suspended.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by whodey17

Again it is perception vs reality. It is a philosophical debate. If a man pushes you causing you to fall back what do you do. Did the man push you because he wanted to cause you harm, or did he push you because you were about to get hit by a car. You have to find out why one acted before you decide what to do. If the man pushed you so you wouldnt get hit by a car you would say thanks. If he pushed you because he was mad at you then you may want to defend yourself.

Well, again, having not even once watched the race you have no idea what happened.

So how are you able to talk about "perception" during the race when Martin obviously forced Coa to check in a manner that was 100%/360 degrees/COMPLETELY POLAR OPPOSITE of what Coa later did to him, WHEN YOU NEVER EVEN WATCHED IT ONCE?

Wait, to the rest of us that is evidence that you are NOT able to talk about it.

But, when all logic and reality fails, feel free to keep firing away.

[blackthroatedwind]

Coa is his own worst enemy. He is a terrific talent, and has a likely big career ahead of him, but he gets hotheaded and does dangerous things. This MO has followed him for over a decade. I believe it has definitely kept him from riding a lot of more high profile horses.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by whodey17

But put yourself in Coa's shoes. Maybe he didnt see it that way.

That's the point. There is NEVER ANY reason to jeopardize the life of your horse, yourself, other riders, and other horses based on how one perceives an incident.

It doesn't matter if Coa thought Martin was trying to kill him when he was forced to check earlier in the race -- it is all irrelevant and inexcusable when the lives of riders and horses were put at risk in order to cash in on some personal vendetta.

If Coa was so pissed off about being forced to check, he should have played like a big boy and lodged an objection, instead of risking several lives -- equine and human.

So basically, perception DOESN'T matter.

[whodey17]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I think you are kind of missing the point. It's not Coa's job to decide if Martin did it on purpose or not. That is what the stewards are there for. His job is to ride his horse. Thats it. Not to be a revenge seeker in the middle of the race. I really don't care how Coa saw it.

Let me throw this out there. What if what Coa did caused Martin to fall and he and the horse were badly injured, maybe killed. How would he explain it, or anyone else for that matter.

I agree it isnt Coa's job to decide what Martin intended to not intended to do, this is why he was suspended. I agree that he should have been suspended. I am not sure where the breakdown is occuring here.

[whodey17]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Well, again, having not even once watched the race you have no idea what happened.

So how are you able to talk about "perception" during the race when Martin obviously forced Coa to check in a manner that was 100%/360 degrees/COMPLETELY POLAR OPPOSITE of what Coa later did to him, WHEN YOU NEVER EVEN WATCHED IT ONCE?

Wait, to the rest of us that is evidence that you are NOT able to talk about it.

But, when all logic and reality fails, feel free to keep firing away.

Why do I need to see the replay. BTW did a great job of giving me a visual. Again, I agree that Coa and Martin should be suspended. I think it should have been longer. I dont know what I think this is such a big deal.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Coa is his own worst enemy. He is a terrific talent, and has a likely big career ahead of him, but he gets hotheaded and does dangerous things. This MO has followed him for over a decade. I believe it has definitely kept him from riding a lot of more high profile horses.

It is a shame Andy. It's painfully obvious the guy has immense talent, but until he cools his heels and learns to ride without so much wasted emotion, he will continue to go without that high profile horse.

When his head is in the ballgame...hes top notch. When he does sh*t like Sunday...he just leaves you scratching your head.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by paisjpq

actually it does not matter what coa perceived...there is no situation in which it is okay to put horses and riders at risk for injury to settle a score.

Exactly... if he needs to settle it, he can wait until after he has dismounted. It's unbelievable that there are people who believe it to be acceptable for him to retaliate. I don't care if Martin hit him over the head with a sledgehammer... he has no right to put other horses and riders in danger.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by whodey17

Why do I need to see the replay. BTW did a great job of giving me a visual. Again, I agree that Coa and Martin should be suspended. I think it should have been longer. I dont know what I think this is such a big deal.

I think what we are trying to portray to you is the fact that they both got the same amount of days is what is mind boggling to us. If they want to give Martin a couple days for "careless riding", so be it. But for the stewards to actually think they both deserve the same suspension...it just flat bullsh*t and speaks volumes for their competancy in the job they are doing.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by whodey17

Why is Coa wrong but not Martin? How do we know that Martin didn't do what he did on purpose?

Who cares at that point? It's up to Coa to be an adult and not take it out on the track! He put other people (and horses) in danger.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by GPK

I think what we are trying to portray to you is the fact that they both got the same amount of days is what is mind boggling to us. If they want to give Martin a couple days for "careless riding", so be it. But for the stewards to actually think they both deserve the same suspension...it just flat bullsh*t and speaks volumes for their competancy in the job they are doing.

Thank you for clarifying what seems to be being missed by some.

[whodey17]

Ok I understand here.....I am defending the decision to suspend Martin. If Martin's horse never came out to force Coa to check then Coa would never had lost his cool and did what he did. One action caused another action. This is why I think the Stewards suspended Martin as well. So what I am saying is that the stewards prob looked at this and thought that Coa wouldnt have acted like he did if Martin's horse didnt cause him to check. Does this make sense here.

[whodey17]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

This right here does it for me. How can you have an opinion on something like this without seeing it?

So a blind man can never have an opinion. That seems reasonable.

[blackthroatedwind]

What is also being lost here are the bettors. It is very possible the outcome of the race was altered by Coa's behavoir.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by whodey17

Ok I understand here.....I am defending the decision to suspend Martin. If Martin's horse never came out to force Coa to check then Coa would never had lost his cool and did what he did. One action caused another action. This is why I think the Stewards suspended Martin as well. So what I am saying is that the stewards prob looked at this and thought that Coa wouldnt have acted like he did if Martin's horse didnt cause him to check. Does this make sense here.

See post #84

[whodey17]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

What is also being lost here are the bettors. It is very possible the outcome of the race was altered by Coa's behavoir.

Now that is a very good point.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

What is also being lost here are the bettors. It is very possible the outcome of the race was altered by Coa's behavoir.

Andy, why do you think they left Ice up for show? I guess they felt the outcome of the race wouldn't have changed had the incident not occured?

[whodey17]

Originally Posted by GPK

See post #84

I think both should have rec'd 30 days. I do not see where one should have rec'd more days than the other.