My Problem With Religion

[randallscott35]

Ok, here goes:

I am spiritual in the sense that I think its important to be a good person and that there most likely a heaven...But I don't think one religion is any better than any other or should be preceived to be...In fact I think the world would be far better off if no one believed in religion at all.

There is no debating that more people in human history have died b/c of religion than anything else. Think about it....With that as a backdrop how can we justify something that inherently tears us apart?...I've seen friends who didn't get married b/c one family's religion trumped the others. That idea of "My religion is better than yours" so you need to change yours or you won't be good enough for my child or....---doesn't it make you sick?

To be fair, I also realize the good that religion can do when it improves how people treat each other. For instance, my father is a devout Catholic(I was raised Methodist) and he teaches C.C.D. and volunteers at a hospital every week. He is also the most decent giving person I've ever met. I'm sure his faith has had an impact on making him so....But does that justify belief? I'm pretty sure he'd be a great person anyway and if he had never heard of Jesus in his entire life, with the totality of his goodness over the course of his life, I'd assume he'd be in heaven if there was one....And don't get me started on how backwards religion can be anyway, just take Catholics. Forget about women priests and birth control and anything else in the world that makes sense....And how about Muslims who kill thousands of people based on the belief that they will get dozens of virgins in heaven?

So I guess what I'm saying is, the world would be better off if everyone was an atheist. The good that religion can do is not outweighed by the carnage it has already caused and will continue to cause.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Ok, here goes:

I am spiritual in the sense that I think its important to be a good person and that there most likely a heaven...But I don't think one religion is any better than any other or should be preceived to be...In fact I think the world would be far better off if no one believed in religion at all.

There is no debating that more people in human history have died b/c of religion than anything else. Think about it....With that as a backdrop how can we justify something that inherently tears us apart?...I've seen friends who didn't get married b/c one family's religion trumped the others. That idea of "My religion is better than yours" so you need to change yours or you won't be good enough for my child or....---doesn't it make you sick?

To be fair, I also realize the good that religion can do when it improves how people treat each other. For instance, my father is a devout Catholic(I was raised Methodist) and he teaches C.C.D. and volunteers at a hospital every week. He is also the most decent giving person I've ever met. I'm sure his faith has had an impact on making him so....But does that justify belief? I'm pretty sure he'd be a great person anyway and if he had never heard of Jesus in his entire life, with the totality of his goodness over the course of his life, I'd assume he'd be in heaven if there was one....And don't get me started on how backwards religion can be anyway, just take Catholics. Forget about women priests and birth control and anything else in the world that makes sense....And how about Muslims who kill thousands of people based on the belief that they will get dozens of virgins in heaven?

So I guess what I'm saying is, the world would be better off if everyone was an atheist. The good that religion can do is not outweighed by the carnage it has already caused and will continue to cause.

Ya know Randall, on a serious note, I've been thinking about this a bunch lately.

I was an atheist in high school and then became a Christian. The problem is that I am a Christian because I believe in God and I believe that Jesus died for our sins. But I hate watching so-called "Christians" when they get on TV or message boards or anywhere else and spout off about stuff that would embarrass Jesus if he were standing next to them.

In that regard, I have more or less given up on organized religion -- finding a church to go to. I have never wavered since the beginning of my beliefs that God is very real and that Jesus is the world's best example...but I have wavered in being a part of a community. I tend to identify with "Red Letter Christians" (referring to Bibles that have Jesus's words in red) who look at public modern Christianity and all the battles they choose and all the things they say that are completely irrelevant to Jesus's message.

I'm sick of hypocrites, and I don't want to be associated with them. Those who point to Leviticus to show that homosexuality is "wrong," and then turn around and tell you that Mosaic law is irrelevant to modern day Christianity. As in, sure Leviticus allegedly says that homosexuality is wrong, but it also says we should stone blashpemers and should not eat meat on certain days etc etc. The list is endless. It's called picking and choosing, and lots of evangelicals (public ones, not insinuating that every evangelical is a piece of hypocritical trash) have no problem pointing to one book of the Bible to condemn something like homosexuality while simultaneously telling you that the laws in Leviticus are not applicable to modern Christianity. Other example, head of the National Association of Evangelicls, Ted Haggard. Spending all his time talking about how homosexuality is utterly wrong, while he's simultaneously out partaking in drugs and buttsex with a gay escort.

I can't stand that. I won't be a part of it. But for me, it's not God's fault that some of his believers distort His Son's message to the point that it is unrecognizable. So essentially, I've given up on organized religion, but still have not lost my faith in the importance of Christ and what he did for me.

Gosh, I hope that made a modicum of sense.

[randallscott35]

Brian that made a lot of sense and is pretty much where I'm coming from.

[Grits]

You have both made a tremendous amount of sense.

Our faith is such (that is, if we have faith--and there are many that do not) that it alllows us to see and to understand and accept that we are all different in our beliefs, but those beliefs are the foundation that engages us towards being better human beings, able to move through life each day making a difference. That, being a fine goal.

We don't always need a building with stained glass, but we do usually find ourselves gravatating to, and benefitting from, those that are likeminded. There's comfort there.

With religion causing as many problems as it does with intolerance of others beliefs and behaviors, I start thinking that God is being made into a very mean Santa Claus for adults.

Its a freeforall. "No he does not come down the chimney anymore, he uses UPS. Well if you believe that may he strike you down, everyone knows he uses the chimney." Forget small details like some people have no chimneys.

It gets way silly but dangerous. Too much micromanagement of details that lead to hatred. I really get tired during the season of the birth of Christ being told that x-mas has gotten out of hand. For gosh sakes let the kids have some fun without the infliction of guilt. The Catholic church (raised under this flag) just thrives on guilt. You were born bad, you will always be bad, you cant be as good as Christ so realize this and take pennance... its too much for young children.

[timmgirvan]

Well said,Brian! And the very fact that humans fail a perfect God is reason enough to make sure that the Bible is the final word. Our reasonings are not His, so it's imperative that we 'hang in there' until we understand what God is saying through the Bible. It's not a sprint...it's a marathon.

Getting rid of religion won't solve any problems. The key is getting rid of stupid people.

[randallscott35]

[quote=Pillow Pants]Getting rid of religion won't solve any problems. The key is getting rid of stupid people.[/QUOTE]

How do you suggest we do this PP?

[quote=randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Getting rid of religion won't solve any problems. The key is getting rid of stupid people.[/QUOTE]

How do you suggest we do this PP?

It's too late. They're the voting majority.

[timmgirvan]

[quote=Pillow Pants]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

It's too late. They're the voting majority.

Was that a Democrat joke?

[randallscott35]

[quote=timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Was that a Democrat joke?

What's with the quote system? Seems out of whack. PP's has turned into mine.?

Originally Posted by randallscott35

What's with the quote system? Seems out of whack. PP's has turned into mine.?

As if touched by the hand of Gaaawduh.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

As if touched by the hand of Gaaawduh.

LOL...Religion screwing something else up.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

As if touched by the hand of Gaaawduh.

PP...you speak Elizabethan?

Its a freeforall. Everyone gets their own interpretation, yes even with the Bible of what is bad and good. It gets tiresome, and dangerous.

If you dont accept Jesus as your savior now, you will go to hell. When exactly can you accept him, and what exactly does it mean to accept him as a savior? I have never heard so many diff. answers within the Christian church. So it becomes a personal belief inflicted upon others in too many cases. I dont like this. And maybe it does not matter what I like. But if there is not some overall justice in it all (some sort of fairness), I want nothing to do with it. Im tired of hearing 3 billion Chinese are going to hell.

And hell is and heaven is... lets all take a try at an explaination. What's wrong with admitting you dont know but having some sort of basic faith that does not have to be detailed. I think people should be allowed to say I dont know. I think people who preach to others should use, "I dont know", more often. I personally dont hear it often enough. Maybe Scuds is right, maybe its a southern thing.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Its a freeforall. Everyone gets their own interpretation, yes even with the Bible of what is bad and good. It gets tiresome, and dangerous.

If you dont accept Jesus as your savior now, you will go to hell. When exactly can you accept him, and what exactly does it mean to accept him as a savior? I have never heard so many diff. answers within the Christian church. So it becomes a personal belief inflicted upon others in too many cases. I dont like this. And maybe it does not matter what I like. But if there is not some overall justice in it all (some sort of fairness), I want nothing to do with it. Im tired of hearing 3 billion Chinese are going to hell.

And hell is and heaven is... lets all take a try at an explaination. What's wrong with admitting you dont know but having some sort of basic faith that does not have to be detailed. I think people should be allowed to say I dont know. I think people who preach to others should use, "I dont know", more often. I personally dont hear it often enough. Maybe Scuds is right, maybe its a southern thing.

Pgardn: For a starter, Romans 2 gives an answer for you about anyone who hasn't heard the Gospel. It's a fair answer by your standards,imho. And it's possible you've just been talkin to the wrong people

Timm.

If the answers were all in the bible I would be very pleased. But they are not. And too many people make up answers based on personal interpretations. Or we look to someone to show us a place to read to make up our own minds? or what they think we should see based on what they have read?

Maybe things are crystal clear for some. I have looked to closely at the history of this great work. In the context of the world we live in, and the world we think the people who wrote this lived in, and the number of times it has been changed, and revised. I have to go back to the basics and ask where did I learn all this. How did I come certain beliefs. And if I am true to myself, I realize with total comfort, that the variation is astounding and to say I dont know is just fine. Because I am only human with severe limitations on understanding so much. In my mind it cant be a sin to ask questions and not come up with answers. In my world, this is the way it should be.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Timm.

If the answers were all in the bible I would be very pleased. But they are not. And too many people make up answers based on personal interpretations. Or we look to someone to show us a place to read to make up our own minds? or what they think we should see based on what they have read?

Maybe things are crystal clear for some. I have looked to closely at the history of this great work. In the context of the world we live in, and the world we think the people who wrote this lived in, and the number of times it has been changed, and revised. I have to go back to the basics and ask where did I learn all this. How did I come certain beliefs. And if I am true to myself, I realize with total comfort, that the variation is astounding and to say I dont know is just fine. Because I am only human with severe limitations on understanding so much. In my mind it cant be a sin to ask questions and not come up with answers. In my world, this is the way it should be.

My concern IS that you'll be totally comfortable without coming up with the answer. You are a scientist,and the questions you face in various fields can be answered by the next generation(or the guy sitting next to you),but we are here for a short time and that question MUST be answered by everyone.

[timmgirvan]

PP.....you are a rascal!!