My Problem With Religion

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Can we start a thread for your avatar and include ones we think would work for you? Would be a fun thread.

Sure. I'm always happy when someone else makes a decision so I don't have to. And I agree; it'd be a hilarious thread. I can only imagine what Bababooyee would suggest...

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

P: they have these places called bookstores....Hebrew,Greek dictionaries and all kinds of explanetory guides!

I dont have permission from Israel, the Vatican, etc.. to get to the old stuff though. The real stuff. Not what was interpreted from the real stuff. I mean I want the actual Apostles writings. And then Im gonna need people that understand the real old Hebrew. Because its changed to.

And we apparently are finding "new" old stuff. Think its possible we got all the Apostles stuff? Did we miss some of it? Is that possible? Always digging around you know and we find new old stuff. Did we get all of Paul and Luke and John?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

OK...in summation Romans 2:12-16....Everyone who sins under the Law willed be judged by the Law....not the hearers of the Law,but the doers will be justified....and the Gentiles will be justified(anyone who is not a Jew)...If you don't have the Law, then instinctively you are the Law....meaning holding to the laws of the society you live in...by doing the right things in their hearts they are accused or defended by those laws thereby finding salvation or Hell...to put it in perspective

huh?

I read Romans 2 from this:

The Holy Bible
Old Testament First Published 1609 by the English College at Douay
New Testament First Published 1582 by the English College at Rheims
Revised and Annotated 1749 by Bishop Richard Challoner
Online Edition Copyright © 2006 by Kevin Knight
Imprimatur. +James Cardinal Gibbons, Archbishop of Baltimore, September 1, 1899

Had the Latin with the English translated. Very difficult. And the English College at Douay and Rheims dont have the real documents. I did read the circumcision part. Got that covered, oops, errr... uncovered.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by pgardn

I dont have permission from Israel, the Vatican, etc.. to get to the old stuff though. The real stuff. Not was interpreted from the real stuff. I mean I want the actual Apostles writings. And then Im gonna need people that understand the real old Hebrew. Because its changed to.

And we apparently are finding "new" old stuff. Think its possible we got all the Apostles stuff? Did we miss some of it? Is that possible? Always digging around you know and we find new old stuff. Did we get all of Paul and Luke and John?

Now you are just being silly. You can use the same machinations you use with every endeavor you start, and being the kind who wants an answer, don't quit until you're satisfied!

[GenuineRisk]

Okay, I think my stomach will attempt to digest the 8,000 calories worth of popcorn I ate, rather than giving it back. Thanks guys, for keeping me entertained while I fought my nausea; I'm going to bed.

I ate all that d*mn popcorn during "Killer of Sheep" which was described as the best movie of the 1970's that no one ever saw:

http://salon.com/ent/movies/review/2007/03/30/killer/

I found it profoundly depressing, in that nothing really, seems to have changed since 1977.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by pgardn

I read Romans 2 from this:

The Holy Bible
Old Testament First Published 1609 by the English College at Douay
New Testament First Published 1582 by the English College at Rheims
Revised and Annotated 1749 by Bishop Richard Challoner
Online Edition Copyright © 2006 by Kevin Knight
Imprimatur. +James Cardinal Gibbons, Archbishop of Baltimore, September 1, 1899

Had the Latin with the English translated. Very difficult. And the English College at Douay and Rheims dont have the real documents. I did read the circumcision part. Got that covered, oops, errr... uncovered.

Douay will get you nowhere in a hurry! Try www.biblegateway.com....NASB or NIV would be a start. Glad to hear about your....eh, what does one send for that occasion?

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Danzig

huh?

You're late to the party....

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

Now you are just being silly. You can use the same machinations you use with every endeavor you start, and being the kind who wants an answer, don't quit until you're satisfied!

No I am serious with my point. This is not easy.

2:5. But according to thy hardness and impenitent heart, thou treasurest up to thyself wrath, against the day of wrath and revelation of the just judgment of God:
Secundum duritiam autem tuam et inpaenitens cor thesaurizas tibi iram in die irae et revelationis iusti iudicii Dei

2:6. Who will render to every man according to his works.
Qui reddet unicuique secundum opera eius

2:7. To them indeed who, according to patience in good work, seek glory and honour and incorruption, eternal life:
His quidem qui secundum patientiam boni operis gloriam et honorem et incorruptionem quaerentibus vitam aeternam

2:8. But to them that are contentious and who obey not the truth but give credit to iniquity, wrath and indignation.
His autem qui ex contentione et qui non adquiescunt veritati credunt autem iniquitati ira et indignatio

2:9. Tribulation and anguish upon every soul of man that worketh evil: of the Jew first, and also of the Greek.
Tribulatio et angustia in omnem animam hominis operantis malum Iudaei primum et Graeci

2:10. But glory and honour and peace to every one that worketh good: to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Gloria autem et honor et pax omni operanti bonum Iudaeo primum et Graeco

No Tim this is the word. Science changes with changing evidence and observation. Science is skeptical and must change.

The Bible is the Bible. It relies on faith. It was gathered from many people in many times and has been translated over and over. So what happened to Christ and what he did for us does not change. So we can rely totally on what we read now? What is the best version of the Bible. What have you got?

The above is not even close to what I need. Because I realize it is way recent and translated too many times. Latin, thats Roman crud. I need the Hebrew.

[timmgirvan]

THAT was impressive! I have to go now... but there are various sources to get what you need...but I wouldn't suggest the "Damascus Road" experience

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

Douay will get you nowhere in a hurry! Try www.biblegateway.com....NASB or NIV would be a start. Glad to hear about your....eh, what does one send for that occasion?

Timm I have read many diff. parts of the bible with my daughter. When we started and got to the part about being puffy, she was laughing so hard because we had just seen a baseball game with a guy dressed as a puffy taco. I had to explain to her what they meant by puffy. Full of overconfidence, self-absorbed and assured, not being humble, etc... I think there is a lesson here.

I hope you are seeing my point. WE are seeking what we can understand through the written word. You dont think Douay will get me anywhere, so you seek the written word that you understand. Someone had to write that for us to understand. But it is good enough, because at least we are trying, even if you and I get misled by bad translation (or it just cant be wrong)? or lost stuff that has never been translated? God surely cant hold that against us. Or can he? If 3 billion Chinese not exposed can be tossed, can we for not digging and questioning? For not finding the truth. Because you and I both know what we are reading that we do understand quite possibly is not the truth.

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

You're late to the party....

This could be interpreted as puffy.
Have a good night/morning and have a better tomorrow/today.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by pgardn

This could be interpreted as puffy.
Have a good night/morning and have a better tomorrow/today.

Well P... if we could sit down and talk, I'd be surprised if you still felt that way. Danzig asked a question about a response I gave to Randall. The rest of it is all there,if you read it. I will resist the temptation to explain myself to God by saying " Well, you should have sent a better messenger" Best Timm

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

Well P... if we could sit down and talk, I'd be surprised if you still felt that way. Danzig asked a question about a response I gave to Randall. The rest of it is all there,if you read it. I will resist the temptation to explain myself to God by saying " Well, you should have sent a better messenger" Best Timm

I always go by seek and you shall find, sometimes. At least try. And I can tell you are a heck of a good guy. These sorts of discussions pretty much lead down the same path, but they are still useful. Have a great day.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

I'm mad at radical Christians right now because they sent death threats to a hotel and thus deprived me of chocolate Jesus:

http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=8021

Be sure to click on the Digby link at the end of Cole's post.

And also mad at the hotel for deliberatly setting up a provocative exhibit and then freaking out when it, well, provoked.

GR,
Update on the "cocolate nuts". I was rollin' on the floor when I read the comments...
http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=8021#comments

My guess is that Catholics know chocolate, maybe Jesus...definitely not art!
LOL...forgot "free speech", oh my!