Was that Liquidity that opened up the rail?

[ninetoone]

Looked like a green # that was on the rail & moved outward just as Borel was coming toward the top of the stretch...Borel blasted right by him on the inside...he should buy whoever that jock was a cold one...

[geeker2]

I don't think so..I think it was the #1 horse. Ironically Liquidity bumped hard with Great Hunter (on the outside) and once that happen..they both quit running.

[ninetoone]

Nah, it was a green #...if you watch the overhead view on NBC, he was about 8th on the rail when NoBiz was 6th. I looked at the chart & there isn't a mention of a horse on the rail at that point in the race. Whoever it was moved off of the rail at the perfect time for CB to blast through.

[ninetoone]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I see what you are saying, but I just watched it again, SS was flying by everyone and I don't think anyone opened up the rail for him. Borel is quite frankly the best rail rider I have ever seen, Bailey included and his horse is just better than the rest. I can say IMO the best 3 horses ran 1-2-3 today and that's all you can ask for.

I'm not hatin'...I just noticed that it was perfect timing! Calvin must be living right!

Originally Posted by geeker2

I don't think so..I think it was the #1 horse. Ironically Liquidity bumped hard with Great Hunter (on the outside) and once that happen..they both quit running.

I think Great Hunter tried to make contact with every horse in the field.

[geeker2]

LOL..another classic Corey ride!!

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by geeker2

LOL..another classic Corey ride!!

he shoulda stayed down when that horse dumped him earlier in the day.

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by Danzig

he shoulda stayed down when that horse dumped him earlier in the day.

I guess that horse knew something that we di--nah I'm pretty sure we were on the same page with that horse.

[pba1817]

Originally Posted by ninetoone

Looked like a green # that was on the rail & moved outward just as Borel was coming toward the top of the stretch...Borel blasted right by him on the inside...he should buy whoever that jock was a cold one...

Umm no, the 15 replays I have watched have shown a wide open rail all the way around the track behind Sedgefield...

It's the same thing in every Derby, most of the Jocks try get in the clear too soon, sacrificing way too much ground only to have their mount completely fall apart in the lane. I cannot blame the Jocks too much though... The racing style it takes to win maiden races, allowance, and stakes prep races is almost all run and gun from the word go. The horses have been taught to run as fast as they can early, the jocks have learned that going as fast as they can early is the only way you can survive.

There were 2 patient rides today out of 20, Borel and Albarado...

[Withers]

Originally Posted by pba1817

Umm no, the 15 replays I have watched have shown a wide open rail all the way around the track behind Sedgefield...

It's the same thing in every Derby, most of the Jocks try get in the clear too soon, sacrificing way too much ground only to have their mount completely fall apart in the lane. I cannot blame the Jocks too much though... The racing style it takes to win maiden races, allowance, and stakes prep races is almost all run and gun from the word go. The horses have been taught to run as fast as they can early, the jocks have learned that going as fast as they can early is the only way you can survive.

There were 2 patient rides today out of 20, Borel and Albarado...

Yeah, but as I've mentioned in another post, from what I saw, Albarado wasn't patient in the stretch all the sudden -- pulling him inside, then outside, then inside, then outside...when he finally found a spot, Curlin jumped, but I have to repeat that I think Curlin is really the overlooked one here: Hard Spun did amazingly well on the lead, setting the pace, and being game to hold out; SS got a fantastic trip, and Curlin? only one who had a rotten trip and practically had to halt in the stretch before making his final run...yet he came in. One way or another, as others have said, I think the top 3 horses got 1-3 yesterday.

[ninetoone]

Originally Posted by pba1817

Umm no, the 15 replays I have watched have shown a wide open rail all the way around the track behind Sedgefield...

It's the same thing in every Derby, most of the Jocks try get in the clear too soon, sacrificing way too much ground only to have their mount completely fall apart in the lane. I cannot blame the Jocks too much though... The racing style it takes to win maiden races, allowance, and stakes prep races is almost all run and gun from the word go. The horses have been taught to run as fast as they can early, the jocks have learned that going as fast as they can early is the only way you can survive.

There were 2 patient rides today out of 20, Borel and Albarado...

Umm, yes...watch the overhead view & check out this quote...

As the field neared the top of the stretch, the only horse who had a chance of catching Hard Spun was Street Sense. Borel found a seam between Sedgefield and a tiring Liquidity, and Street Sense burst through the opening and set after Hard Spun. Street Sense reached the front passing the eighth pole and drew away.
"

[pba1817]

What does that quote have to do with anything? I watched the race with my own eyes, the rail was 2 paths open behind Sedgefield, once Street Sense angled around Sedgefield he was home free.

Since you are into quotes, here is the quote directly from the chart "Liquidity, in contention five or six wide, bumped for a stride with Great Hunter early on the far turn and flattened out in the drive."

How do you get to the rail if you are 5 or 6 wide?

Maybe you saw the green colored saddle cloth of Any Given Saturday who got to the inside towards the far turn, but he was toast and getting out 1/2 around the far turn. Gomez says he was bumped by Street Sense as he went flying by...

[pba1817]

Originally Posted by Withers

Yeah, but as I've mentioned in another post, from what I saw, Albarado wasn't patient in the stretch all the sudden -- pulling him inside, then outside, then inside, then outside...when he finally found a spot, Curlin jumped, but I have to repeat that I think Curlin is really the overlooked one here: Hard Spun did amazingly well on the lead, setting the pace, and being game to hold out; SS got a fantastic trip, and Curlin? only one who had a rotten trip and practically had to halt in the stretch before making his final run...yet he came in. One way or another, as others have said, I think the top 3 horses got 1-3 yesterday.

I thought his ride for the most part, until the stretch, was patient. At the top of the stretch, your patience is about done since the winner is usually long gone at that point. He had the poorest trip from what I can see, and I think he will surely be a force in the Preakness.

[ninetoone]

Originally Posted by pba1817

What does that quote have to do with anything? I watched the race with my own eyes, the rail was 2 paths open behind Sedgefield, once Street Sense angled around Sedgefield he was home free.

Since you are into quotes, here is the quote directly from the chart "Liquidity, in contention five or six wide, bumped for a stride with Great Hunter early on the far turn and flattened out in the drive."

How do you get to the rail if you are 5 or 6 wide?

You need to re-read post 4 in this thread where I said that I checked the chart & it didn't match up with what I saw on the overhead view. Seriously, watch the overhead view on nbc's website. You'll see Liquidity right on the rail & he moves outward (tiring) just as SS comes up behind him & goes right between him & Sedgefield. I'll be here waiting if you want to admit that you were wrong, but I won't hold my breath.

[pba1817]

I edited my post, I guess the chart can be wrong... I have seen the overhead as well, and I agree that the colors seem to be Reddam's, the saddle cloth of AGS is also a teal green/blue also, either way, the rail was open for the most part from mid turn home.

[PPerfectfan]

I'll be here waiting if you want to admit that you were wrong, but I won't hold my breath

Yeah, I see your turning blue over there. I wouldnt wait either. I saw the same thing, but what do we know, how can u belive your own eyes?

[pba1817]

You know what, you are 100% right.. the chart is dead wrong!!! Meaning I am wrong, sorry about that. I watched the replay, and the side view just as they enter the turn you can clearly see Reddam's colors and 9 on Liquidity on the rail.

I still stand on my view that the rail was open from mid turn home though!!

[ninetoone]

No hard feelings here...thanks for watching it again. I watched & watched & couldn't believe the chart was wrong.

First of all Nine, your post 12 is a little confusing because I thought you said Liquidity came off the rail to open up that path but then in post 12 it sounds like SS split horses. THis may have led to some of the confusion in this thread.

second of all, Kudos to you for taking the time to look at the video and the chart and make sense of it all. I know how much work that can take cause I did the same thing last year for Barbaro's chart and that chart is way messed up. (dont have time enuf to get into it, but it affects Barbaro, Jazil, Derek and one or two others. PM me if you need more..)

Spent many hours on that one. Anyhow, "YES" derby charts can be very messed up. We have probably only scratched the surface of how many years worth of derbies are way messed up since the internet, etc is only a recent invention....

Anyhow, thanks for bringing this to light. Good Show!

[whodey17]

I think the 9 was getting tired therefore floating out to the jocks right and falling back. The combination of those two things allowed SS to pass everyone while hugging the rail and then moving to the outside of Sedge without breaking stride.