Patriots punishment

[Cannon Shell]

[quote=golfer]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Not even in the same ballpark.

The one question I have that no one seems to be asking is that if Mangini was aware that his signals were being stolen, why didn't he simply change them from game to game? Wouldn't the other team having faulty information actually be an advantage for the Jets?

Mangini obviously would think of this which leads me to believe that he just wanted for Belichik to get caught, not that he thought that the Pats would actually gain a signifigant advantage from them[/QUOTE]

Chuck, I'm sorry to say this is an extremely valid point, and while it does not absolve Belichek of cheating, makes me feel a whole lot worse about the woeful performance of the Jets defense last week.

At least you pawned off Herm and got something in return which seems to be one of the great front office deals in a long time.

[golfer]

Herman Edwards is a wonderful human being, a quality motivational speaker, and a below average football coach. By the way, You Play to Win the Game, but sometimes you coach not to lose.

[JJP]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

dear forfeitheads:

you lost 38-14.

nice job cheering your starting qb's injury.

just when i thought i had seen the worst possible behavior from new york fans i stumble across this thread.

don't forget ne got called for a few penalties during the game. penalties are called for a reason. screw the 5 yards. i think you should get a forfeit for those.

man up. you need to get out of the pink panties and summer dress. when you get blown out by a much better team don't start retarded threads asking to have an undeserved win handed to you.

it just makes you look bad.

First off, idiot, I am NOT a Jets fan. I don't even like the city of New York. But what's wrong is wrong and if you can't see that a forfeit is the only logical answer, then you are a dope.

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by JJP

First off, idiot, I am NOT a Jets fan. I don't even like the city of New York. But what's wrong is wrong and if you can't see that a forfeit is the only logical answer, then you are a dope.

maybe you're right and i'm wrong.

lets wait and see what the commisioner decides.

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

The NFL, before the season started made it a point to address this very situation with every team. Game 1 and the Pats get caught doing it. It's a spit in the face of the Goodell, the NFL and Belichick basically saying that the rules don't apply to him.

The Jets were not going to win that game regardless. The Pats are just a flat out better team then them and most teams in the NFL. However, rules are rules and when you break a rule that you have already been warned about, what is Goodell supposed to do? Belichick is a scumbag and his excuse of him interpreting the rules wrong is laughable at best. The rules could not be more explicit.

THis is a very good summary.
This is why Belichick is really not putting up any sort of arguement.
The Pats are not making a huge deal of it either.

I think a forfeit would have sent the best message.
However, the Jets dont really deserve a win.
So give them a lose also, because they did.

The punishment that was doled out will hurt though.
Especially so if McFadden of Arkansas turns out to
be the player that could have been.

[Danzig]

maybe mangini thought he could win regardless. maybe he got embarrassed to find that wasn't the case. after all, he and the pats met three times last year, would be somewhat safe to say that it may happen again this year.
zabe on fox sports had a compelling argument as to why it was a big deal, as well as why mangini owes his loyalty to his new employers, and not his old coach.

my big question tho, is what does this do to tom brady? something not really getting much mention, how good is a QB who knows, doesn't just think, but KNOWS what the defense is going to do? is he tainted now? i would think the scandal would have to have an affect on him, his reputation, his legacy.
i always thought he was a good one. now i'm not so sure. how much was he helped? perhaps bonds can loan him one of those asterisks...

Originally Posted by pgardn

THis is a very good summary.
This is why Belichick is really not putting up any sort of arguement.
The Pats are not making a huge deal of it either.

I think a forfeit would have sent the best message.
However, the Jets dont really deserve a win.
So give them a lose also, because they did.

The punishment that was doled out will hurt though.
Especially so if McFadden of Arkansas turns out to
be the player that could have been.

Jeez.
They dont lose the highest placed 1st rounder, via the 49ers most likely.
OK that sux. They might still be in line for McFadden. If the 49ers end up with the worst record, and the Pats get McFadden, thats not good.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The one question I have that no one seems to be asking is that if Mangini was aware that his signals were being stolen, why didn't he simply change them from game to game? Wouldn't the other team having faulty information actually be an advantage for the Jets?

Yeah.

The people who think any of this impacted this game are totally insane.

This game featured a 108 yard kickoff return for a TD by NE - a 51 yard bomb NE TD to a reciever who was being TRIPLE covered on the play.

The signal stealing might have helped them in a game later on in the season, not this one.

New England always looks like a vastly improved team when they play teams for a second or third time in the same season - the Colts and Steelers know that as well as anyone.

However, I don't think stealing signals are the real reason for that.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Yeah.

The people who think any of this impacted this game are totally insane.

This game featured a 108 yard kickoff return for a TD by NE - a 51 yard bomb NE TD to a reciever who was being TRIPLE covered on the play.

The signal stealing might have helped them in a game later on in the season, not this one.

New England always looks like a vastly improved team when they play teams for a second or third time in the same season - the Colts and Steelers know that as well as anyone.

However, I don't think stealing signals are the real reason for that.

maybe they'd have won this game regardless...but how many games have they won due to cheating? how tainted is their record now? how much better would it make a good team such as the pats--and if they were that good, why did he feel the need to go over the top on this, and risk so much for this game?

[Samarta]

[quote=golfer]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Not even in the same ballpark.

The one question I have that no one seems to be asking is that if Mangini was aware that his signals were being stolen, why didn't he simply change them from game to game? Wouldn't the other team having faulty information actually be an advantage for the Jets?

Mangini obviously would think of this which leads me to believe that he just wanted for Belichik to get caught, not that he thought that the Pats would actually gain a signifigant advantage from them[/QUOTE]

Chuck, I'm sorry to say this is an extremely valid point, and while it does not absolve Belichek of cheating, makes me feel a whole lot worse about the woeful performance of the Jets defense last week.

Or maybe because they all do it......

[SentToStud]

The penalties put on NE are a joke. $750k in fines, $500k to Belechik is chump change and the coach's fine will get passed on through a bonus. Wade Wilson got suspended and fined for being a coach who some time ago got some HGH.

Belechik should have got suspended for four games and the team fined $10 million.

[JJP]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Yeah.

The people who think any of this impacted this game are totally insane.

This game featured a 108 yard kickoff return for a TD by NE - a 51 yard bomb NE TD to a reciever who was being TRIPLE covered on the play.

The signal stealing might have helped them in a game later on in the season, not this one.

New England always looks like a vastly improved team when they play teams for a second or third time in the same season - the Colts and Steelers know that as well as anyone.

However, I don't think stealing signals are the real reason for that.

What's happened to New England the last several times they played the Colts? Can you say, ass-kicking?? And not by the Pats. The Patriots are sooooo 2003....

[JJP]

In 2003 and 2004 they were the best team and probably would've won anyways. But 2001......they were arguably one of the worst Super Bowl winning teams ever; similar to the Cardinal team in MLB who won the World Series last year. The Patriots were a 14 point dog to the Rams in that Super Bowl although they probably were helped by the fact that Martz is a O-coordinator and not a good head coach. Statistically, they were not in the top 12 either offensively or defensively. They also got away with roughing up Ram receivers back then that wouldn't be allowed now.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Yeah.

The people who think any of this impacted this game are totally insane.

This game featured a 108 yard kickoff return for a TD by NE - a 51 yard bomb NE TD to a reciever who was being TRIPLE covered on the play.

The signal stealing might have helped them in a game later on in the season, not this one.

New England always looks like a vastly improved team when they play teams for a second or third time in the same season - the Colts and Steelers know that as well as anyone.

However, I don't think stealing signals are the real reason for that.

I think the Pats are a much better team than the Jets, and this incident
had no affect on THIS game. Do they have past tapes that might have given them an edge in this game (not saying it would have mattered). But the question is how long have they been doing this? and what do they do with the tape? Are they using it as some sort of advanced scouting, meaning they have an idea what the formations and audible calls are. So this confiscated tape just would have updated the Jets catelog. Do they have one for every team? You would think if they were taping the Jets (who are not a good team), you would think that they have tapes against the Colts and Chargers. Basically it just gives them an unfair advantage against every team that they have an illegal tape on. They probably have a catelog on every team in the league. If the NFL could somehow prove this then Mr. Belichek might really be in some deep S#!%.

[JJP]

I think they've already proven that and Mr. Belichek's wallet would have to agree also.

If you get caught cheating once, it opens up a whole new can of worms. Have to wonder if they aren't cheating in other ways. Remember Sammy Sosa with the corked bat? I think even the most naive non-believer in steroids would've had to say, "yeah, it probably was more than weights with Sammy".

[Danzig]

[quote=Samarta]

Originally Posted by golfer

Or maybe because they all do it......

the most over-used and abused 'justification' there is....i don't believe everybody does it, just like i don't believe everyone steals from their employer, cheats on their spouse, etc. but the ones who do it seem to think so!

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

I think the Pats are a much better team than the Jets, and this incident
had no affect on THIS game. Do they have past tapes that might have given them an edge in this game (not saying it would have mattered). But the question is how long have they been doing this? and what do they do with the tape? Are they using it as some sort of advanced scouting, meaning they have an idea what the formations and audible calls are. So this confiscated tape just would have updated the Jets catelog. Do they have one for every team? You would think if they were taping the Jets (who are not a good team), you would think that they have tapes against the Colts and Chargers. Basically it just gives them an unfair advantage against every team that they have an illegal tape on. They probably have a catelog on every team in the league. If the NFL could somehow prove this then Mr. Belichek might really be in some deep S#!%.

you would have to assume that they didn't just tape the team they were playing currently. did someone tape this weeks opponent last week?

[Samarta]

[quote=Danzig]

Originally Posted by Samarta

the most over-used and abused 'justification' there is....i don't believe everybody does it, just like i don't believe everyone steals from their employer, cheats on their spouse, etc. but the ones who do it seem to think so!

The justification mentioned in my response came from an interview I saw on MSN this morning where a NFL beat reporter commented on the behind the ropes jokes that are going on about this and how it's widely used throughout the league. It reminded me of the interview that Carl Lewis did after he was awarded the gold medal for the Olympic 100 meters because Ben Johnson had a positive drug test. Carl Lewis's comment was that he couldn't believe how anyone could get caught because they all know how to cycle in and cycle out of steriods to beat the testing and when someone gets caught it's simply out of stupidity.

[Danzig]

[quote=Samarta]

Originally Posted by Danzig

The justification mentioned in my response came from an interview I saw on MSN this morning where a NFL beat reporter commented on the behind the ropes jokes that are going on about this and how it's widely used throughout the league. It reminded me of the interview that Carl Lewis did after he was awarded the gold medal for the Olympic 100 meters because Ben Johnson had a positive drug test. Carl Lewis's comment was that he couldn't believe how anyone could get caught because they all know how to cycle in and cycle out of steriods to beat the testing and when someone gets caught it's simply out of stupidity.

yeah, i've heard several people ask if this does happen everywhere. i hope it doesn't!

[King Glorious]

IRVING – When Wade Wilson learned New England coach Bill Belichick would not miss any games for his role in "Spygate," the suspended Cowboys quarterbacks coach was puzzled.

"Being told coaches are held to higher authority, my intent was not to create an imbalance in competition," Wilson said. "Presumably, what the Patriots did was try to, so I'm wondering about the consistency."

Wilson has four games left of a five-game suspension and has to pay a $100,000 fine for violating the NFL's policy on performance-enhancing drugs. Wilson, who has lived with diabetes for 24 years, told commissioner Roger Goodell he was using a banned substance to help his quality of life. Wilson said the league cleared him of distributing the substance to players.

Speaking before the Cowboys' season opener against the New York Giants, Goodell said he punished Wilson because he holds coaches to a higher standard.

"As a coach, you understand the policies and you're responsible for leading these young men, and we want them to lead them in the right direction," Goodell said.

Wilson said he will speak with Cowboys owner and general manager Jerry Jones before he decides whether to appeal his suspension. Wilson added that he is unsure whether it's still possible to file an appeal. When the suspension was announced, Wilson spoke with NFL Coaches Association president Larry Kennan about an appeal but opted against it.

"If Jerry doesn't want me to do that, then I'll accept that because of the way he's backed me," Wilson said.

Belichick was fined $500,000 by the league and the organization was docked $250,000. If the Patriots make the playoffs this year, they will forfeit their first-round pick in next year's draft. If they do not qualify for the postseason, they'll lose second- and third-round picks.

Wilson said the fines seem disproportionate when comparing his salary to Belichick's. The Patriots coach is believed to make $4.2 million a year, while Wilson makes a little over $300,000.

"I'm not trying to jump down the commissioner's back or bring Coach Belichick down," Wilson said. "I'd just like consistency from what I was told to what the next situation was."
__________________________

Goodell is full of bs. Simple as that. Wilson has freaking diabetes, the league knows he didn't give the drugs to players.....yet they suspend him over a quarter of the season and fine him 1/3 of his salary. People are saying that what Belichick got was sufficient. It was a comparative slap on the wrist. Goodell says coaches are held to a higher standard but punishes a head coach FAR LESS for a FAR GREATER infraction of the rules than he does a position coach. Whether or not all teams do what the Pats did, which I don't think they do, the purpose for doing it is still to gain a competitive edge, to create an imbalance in competion as Wilson said. Perhaps the Pats penalty is not too severe and is justified but then if it is the right penalty, Wilson's was extremely severe and unjust.