Whale's past post sets off alarm

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Odds on winners go down way too much for it to be a coincidence.You really don't have an excuse for not getting a bet at home made.I would be fine with shutting pools down for everyone except those at the actual track the race is taking place.Let them have that perk(for going to the actual track.)

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Mike Maloney is not just one of the biggest bettors in the country, he is also one of the sharpest horseplayers alive, and an extremely bright and well-spoken advocate of bettor's rights. To make light of this is a mistake. None of us knows as much as he knows about this situation and I for one listen to anything he has to say and take it all seriously.

The bottom line is that the necessary dollars have not been spent to update our tote system and even one situation like this is too many for me. Laugh and joke all you want but if you put your money through the windows you should be taking this very seriously......and expecting that all racing organizations are acting in kind.

I agree. For this to happen once is one time too many.

And if he was, in fact, punching tickets during the race, you can bet your last dollar others were doing the same.

As an aside, Maloney would be better at running Homeland Security than whoever they have now.

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

If what you say is true, can you say with any degree of certainty or with verifiable evidence that the Breeders Cup scandal which is much worse than this has negatively effected handle in any manner? I agree that the security of the pools is a huge issue but this example seems to be an isolated case. If not why hasn't it been brought up pubically before? Or has it?

i can say that most people are satisfied the problem that lead to the pick 6 scandal was addressed and confident it can't be repeated.

they changed course after that. which makes all the difference.

what would have happened to handle in the pick 6 if everyone knew something strange had happened and the reaction had been "don't worry. that was an isolated incident and we don't need to do anything about it."

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

i can say that most people are satisfied the problem that lead to the pick 6 scandal was addressed and confident it can't be repeated.

they changed course after that. which makes all the difference.

what would have happened to handle in the pick 6 if everyone knew something strange had happened and the reaction had been "don't worry. that was an isolated incident and we don't need to do anything about it."

Big difference between the the BC scandal and this. Wagering security is important, that I understand. But I am at a racetrack every day and I talk to people in different jurisdictions daily and I cant remember the last time I heard about betting after the race went off. What would concern me more is a hacker getting into the system without anyone knowing. If you want to say that this instance was an example of a faulty system then I can agree with you. But if this had happened to this guy before why didn't he give other examples? Or did he and they weren't reported?

[Bobby Fischer]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Big difference between the the BC scandal and this. Wagering security is important, that I understand. But I am at a racetrack every day and I talk to people in different jurisdictions daily and I cant remember the last time I heard about betting after the race went off. What would concern me more is a hacker getting into the system without anyone knowing. If you want to say that this instance was an example of a faulty system then I can agree with you. But if this had happened to this guy before why didn't he give other examples? Or did he and they weren't reported?

-from the article Maloney was hanging out by the teller , the race started and the machine didn't beep to indicate wagering was closed.

Sounds like he was at least aware of what to look for.

Fair Grounds states that their stop-wagering mechanism "malfunctioned". For that race only. - So if the problem was centralized in FG and not in KEE = than Maloney may not have been the only past-post money. And any persuasive player matched with a crooked/gullible teller could have bet late or cancelled late for this race.

Also it wouldn't be incredibly far fetched, to raise some possibilities that the FG stop-wagering mechanism was at previous times a bit tardy...

[hi_im_god]

quotes from the bc scandal:

"Brooks Pierce, president of Autotote, which processes 65 percent of all horse racing wagers in North America, confirmed that the Maryland man won more than $3 million on his $1,152 bet. He also said that his company's records show the man made two bets at 2:13 p.m. and 2:14 p.m. on Saturday, well before pool was closed at 2:37 p.m.

Pierce said the bettor made a pick-six wager on a $2 ticket that did not win using a similar strategy -- he bet the entire field in the first two legs and then picked one horse in the remaining four. He said he had not yet been asked for the data by state investigators, but he intended to provide it.

''We've done the autopsy and do not have any question about the veracity of the bets,'' Pierce said. ''I can understand how a skeptic can look at a pool of this size and only one winner -- especially with those four singles -- and have concerns.

''But I also would like to think we have a pretty good story about a guy who didn't bet much and made a lot of money. I believe that is good for racing as well.'' "

and

"Donald Groth, president of Catskill OTB, also believes that the bettor had a career day betting. He said phone bets are recorded and monitored.

''Everything we have points to the legitimacy of this bet,'' Groth said. ''If some technological event happened as it left here, I don't know what it would be. I hope that the investigation is concluded swiftly, so our customer can go out and buy a Mercedes or two. Isn't that what you would do?'' "


fortunatly those attitudes weren't allowed to prevail.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

To make light of this is a mistake. None of us knows as much as he knows about this situation and I for one listen to anything he has to say and take it all seriously.

The bottom line is that the necessary dollars have not been spent to update our tote system and even one situation like this is too many for me. Laugh and joke all you want but if you put your money through the windows you should be taking this very seriously......and expecting that all racing organizations are acting in kind.

Dead on here. The tote systems that racing are using are behind the times. For example, we're told by the tote companies that the reason that there aren't future pools with more than 24 wagering interests is that their systems can't handle it. In this day and age, they've got to be kidding. If they're not, then their systems are not as sophisticated as we're led to believe.

Perception is very important here. I realize that many place their wagers at the last few minutes to post, but I also know that people can adapt to changes in circumstances. If wagering were closed one minute to post, people would adjust over time. As I frequently say to friends of mine, gamblers rarely get shut out on a bet they really want to make.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

Dead on here. The tote systems that racing are using are behind the times. For example, we're told by the tote companies that the reason that there aren't future pools with more than 24 wagering interests is that their systems can't handle it. In this day and age, they've got to be kidding. If they're not, then their systems are not as sophisticated as we're led to believe.

Perception is very important here. I realize that many place their wagers at the last few minutes to post, but I also know that people can adapt to changes in circumstances. If wagering were closed one minute to post, people would adjust over time. As I frequently say to friends of mine, gamblers rarely get shut out on a bet they really want to make.

I completely agree. Bettors will most certainly learn to adjust.

[theiman]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I completely agree. Bettors will most certainly learn to adjust.

But it must be uniform for all outlets that accept wagers, live or on line.


When I first moved from NY to California, NY still had the rule that the wagering closed with 2 horses left to load. Well that I guess applied to only NY wagerers. I was often able to cancel wagers at the Del Mar facility, after a start delay due to a horse breaking through the gate. I doubt that was possible at the live track in NY. Nobody should have that type advantage unless all can have it.

I also remember the days at NY tracks that the Daily Double closed 2 minutes to post for race one. Much bigger crowds back then and no problems or mass complaints.

[fpsoxfan]

Interesting argument here as I've read all of the post. If this indeed happened, it's a shame. I'm hoping this doesn't happen again at any track.
It takes away from the integrity of the game. Speaking of integrity, how can anyone respect this Maloney fellow if he knowingly CHEATED. Also would he bloviate on this if he in fact had won his tardy wager. Big Bettor or not, I question his character.. As far as when to shut down the windows. In no way do I want the race to close 2 seconds or two minutes before the gate opens. I'm sure most of the people who support shutting the windows early haven't had to stand in line with the average race fan in quite some time. There has to be technology to prevent betting after the horses have left the gate.

[Zaf]

"He said that the stop wagering mechanism the stewards use malfunctioned, and that the mutual manager stopped wagering 15 seconds after the race began."

Nice to know that the highest forms of modern technology are being utilized.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by Zaf

"He said that the stop wagering mechanism the stewards use malfunctioned, and that the mutual manager stopped wagering 15 seconds after the race began."

Nice to know that the highest forms of modern technology are being utilized.

Which begs the obvious question, just how the hell does he do that?

[Payson Dave]

A 15 second half mile would be awful quick...

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

Which begs the obvious question, just how the hell does he do that?

He pulls the plug?

based on what I've read, that may not be too far from the truth

[2MinsToPost]

Little Brown Jug is known well for this around here. I was not the only one who watched a man place his wagers on a race AFTER the gates swung closed and the Pacers or Trotters were off. A good 15 seconds after the gates swung close.

[theiman]

In the old days when there was racing at the Goshen Harness track about 50 miles north of NYC, the windows closed for betting when the mutuel manager blew a whistle. Often the whistle didnt blow until the horses were already in the backstretch (it was a 1/2 mile track) some 20 seconds into the race.
Those were the days that taking 2/5 on a favorite with the lead was a steall.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Cardus

I saw this response earlier today, but this question just came to mind:

If a Courier-Journal or Herald-Leader reporter asked you for your opinion on this instance, and you knew that you were going to be quoted for attribution, would you have said "Get over it?"

Why are you so obsessed with what I say? Do you want me to call them and give them a quote? I will. At least I will state my true opinion on subjects unlike most in this industry. My opinion is that this was a malfunction. Simple. Get over it. If someone comes up with some information that this was done for an advantage or is happening more than once in a blue moon then I will say that there is a serious problem. There are many people here who feel that it is not an isolated incident. Fine that is thier opinion. If someone shows me something that backs that opinion up I will admit I underestimated the problem.

I would say that there are many more fixed races in this country than there are races with past posts. Think about that for a minute. Now there is a real problem.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

.

I would say that there are many more fixed races in this country than there are races with past posts. Think about that for a minute. Now there is a real problem.

At least we know you're uninvolved.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

At least we know you're uninvolved.

Been holding em for 2 years...I'll let you know...but dont get shut out!

[2MinsToPost]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Why are you so obsessed with what I say? Do you want me to call them and give them a quote? I will. At least I will state my true opinion on subjects unlike most in this industry. My opinion is that this was a malfunction. Simple. Get over it. If someone comes up with some information that this was done for an advantage or is happening more than once in a blue moon then I will say that there is a serious problem. There are many people here who feel that it is not an isolated incident. Fine that is thier opinion. If someone shows me something that backs that opinion up I will admit I underestimated the problem.

I would say that there are many more fixed races in this country than there are races with past posts. Think about that for a minute. Now there is a real problem.

Chuck I worked as a Teller for several months back a couple years ago. I speak regulary with many Tellers at my home track and have for years. If anyone should know about whether this is a problem or not it is a Teller at Beulah Park cause we have a large group of "gamblers" who play odds and numbers with 1 minute to post or less. They are shut out all the time.

Look, I sit at the same table when I am at the track which is right next to 2 Tellers who take a lot of action from the aforementioned players and in clear view of a dozen or more tv's. I don't see it as a crisis but rather an isolated incident that needs looked into.