Cathay Pacific Hong Kong International Races

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by my miss storm cat

I meant to ask you King, what did you think of the locals?

Just wondering cause of the Silent Witness (applause! ) debate days..... you kinda said he won cause he beat the same horses over and over.

What did you think? Were you impressed?

I didn't think too much of them. They ran ok races but I didn't see anything that I was too turned on by. The Good Ba Ba win was probably the best one because I thought it was one that came over a decent field of horses. But he was all out to beat what I felt was a second rate Euro 3yo and I didn't think Darjina got a chance to show her best although the more I watch it, the more I think that even with a clear run, she wasn't getting there. Overall, I think they gave a good account of themselves. Certainly no embarrassment.

And I still think that Silent Witness was one of the most overrated horses I've ever seen.

[my miss storm cat]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I didn't think too much of them. They ran ok races but I didn't see anything that I was too turned on by. The Good Ba Ba win was probably the best one because I thought it was one that came over a decent field of horses. But he was all out to beat what I felt was a second rate Euro 3yo and I didn't think Darjina got a chance to show her best although the more I watch it, the more I think that even with a clear run, she wasn't getting there. Overall, I think they gave a good account of themselves. Certainly no embarrassment.

And I still think that Silent Witness was one of the most overrated horses I've ever seen.

Instead of having this debate again about the great and gallant champion of the world, the incomparable, the brilliant Silent Witness... c'mon King, sing it with me. His theme song. Makes me all teary-eyed and i'm not kidding.

http://www.silentwitness.com.hk/engl...5_showcase.asp

[brockguy]

isnt sacred kingdom rated at least as high as Silent Witness??

[my miss storm cat]

Originally Posted by brockguy

isnt sacred kingdom rated at least as high as Silent Witness??

As high, and there are people who aren't happy about it.

* * *


SCMP.....

Saturday, December 15, 2007

Kingdom the equal of Witness, but not Andretti


ALAN AITKEN
Sacred Kingdom's brilliant Sprint victory has seen him equal Silent Witness' international mark of 123. Photos: Kenneth Chan

The world's handicappers have officially sanctioned Cathay Pacific Hong Kong Sprint winner Sacred Kingdom on a figure equal to the best achieved by the great Silent Witness, but stopped short of agreeing he is the world champion.
The rating of 123, foreshadowed by Jockey Club chief handicapper Nigel Gray after last Sunday's international meeting, has been confirmed after the annual gathering of handicappers this week in Hong Kong and is the highest rating listed.

However, Australia's Miss Andretti was left on 120, which includes a four-pound allowance for her being female, so her rating remains 124 in effect and she is still the world champion sprinter.

Ricky Yiu Poon-fie's Sacred Kingdom's mark is equal to the peak achieved by Silent Witness when he dominated the rankings for more than two years. It continues Hong Kong's strong influence at the top of the sprinting category, after Fairy King Prawn, Silent Witness and Absolute Champion were all ranked as the world's leading or joint-top turf sprinter.

The elevation of Yiu's sprinter is the fourth time in the past five years that the Sprint winner has been given a high mark.

Hong Kong Mile hero Good Ba Ba has also been elevated from his prior rating of 115 to an international mark of 119 after his defeat of 118-rated Creachadoir, with the Godolphin horse remaining on that mark.

Viva Pataca has remained in the world's top 20 on 122 after his unlucky defeat by 123-rated Godolphin horse Ramonti, who stays on 123.

The Vase winner Doctor Dino has been raised to 119 from 117, while runner-up Quijano remains on a 119 assessment.

[King Glorious]

I don't know anything about these ratings but from the looks of it, they are pretty slanted towards Asian horses. How in the world is this Miss Andretti rated as the world champion sprinter? Is this only for grass? Even so, didn't Sacred Kingdom just kick her ass?

So the highest Silent Witness ever reached was 123? Same as Sacred Kingdon and below the number of Miss Andretti? How can that be? Foreign observers have been saying that Silent Witness was a super horse but these rankings point him out to be relatively ordinary among top horses.

[NoChanceToDance]

Miss Andretti isn't an Asian horse.

I think she fully deserves to be rated as highly as she is. She beats the best in Australia, then she comes and beats the beat over five furlongs in England before the ground went against her on her next start.

She's had a very busy year and that was probably the main reason she was beaten in HK. I know you are completely against the excuse of the draw, but it certainly didn't help her. Not many horses would have won after being kept three or four deep around the turn, especially as she was racing very keenly.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by NoChanceToDance

Miss Andretti isn't an Asian horse.

I think she fully deserves to be rated as highly as she is. She beats the best in Australia, then she comes and beats the beat over five furlongs in England before the ground went against her on her next start.

She's had a very busy year and that was probably the main reason she was beaten in HK. I know you are completely against the excuse of the draw, but it certainly didn't help her. Not many horses would have won after being kept three or four deep around the turn, especially as she was racing very keenly.

Are these rankings for grass only? Also, I'm not informed on Australian racing at all but it's always been my opinion that the racing there is highly provincial. I compare it to saying a horse beat the best in Canada. Doesn't mean a lot outside of that region. Her win in England was a good one but it was also in a grade two race. If she had beaten the best in Europe, that would be a different story. I would have no issue with calling a world class level horse. But the world champion seems a bit of a stretch.

[NoChanceToDance]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Are these rankings for grass only? Also, I'm not informed on Australian racing at all but it's always been my opinion that the racing there is highly provincial. I compare it to saying a horse beat the best in Canada. Doesn't mean a lot outside of that region.

Yes, I'm pretty sure these ratings are for turf only.

I know very little about Australian racing, so you'd be best of asking one of the others.

I know she was very much the best they had to offer, and the Aussie's are usually well ahead when it comes to sprinters.

[my miss storm cat]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Are these rankings for grass only? Also, I'm not informed on Australian racing at all but it's always been my opinion that the racing there is highly provincial. I compare it to saying a horse beat the best in Canada. Doesn't mean a lot outside of that region. Her win in England was a good one but it was also in a grade two race. If she had beaten the best in Europe, that would be a different story. I would have no issue with calling a world class level horse. But the world champion seems a bit of a stretch.

This helps to explain the point structure.....

From the South China Morning post.....

Kingdom still not quite in Witness' league ... yet


ON THE RAILS, with ALAN AITKEN


Any comparison between the world ratings of the great Silent Witness (above) in his heyday and Sacred Kingdom now is nonsense. Photo: David Wong

It was difficult not to be a devoted fan of Silent Witness, and if Sacred Kingdom keeps doing what he's doing without faltering for another two years he will deservedly hold the same pride of place in Hong Kong's heart and in racing lore.
We aren't saying he won't do it but that's how far Sacred Kingdom has to go to be Silent Witness - and two years is a very long time in a racehorse's life.

And yet, this column unreservedly supports the world's handicappers in their decision last week to rate Sacred Kingdom on the same international figure as they did the "Spirit of Hong Kong" at his peak.

Had the panel gone the whole nine yards and put Sacred Kingdom on 124, above their peak for Silent Witness and on par with Miss Andretti - more about that shortly - then we would have just as readily supported them.

Not because Sacred Kingdom is a better horse than was Silent Witness, but because the international handicappers distinguished themselves by collectively never getting Silent Witness right.

Even when Cape Of Good Hope had done the hard yards for them as a ready comparison and won Group Ones in Australia and at Royal Ascot, there was still no hurry to regard Silent Witness as dominant or even as good as some of the European sprinters immediately preceding him.

The bizarre 125 for Oasis Dream in 2003 was always one that stuck in the craw, for example. A clear case of a lie to support a lie.

In raptures with Choisir, the handicappers over-boosted his rating after his wins at Ascot and were then forced to kick Oasis Dream onto the roof when he beat Choisir in the July Cup.

And as worthy as his achievements were, Choisir was never any better than the usual standard of top sprinter every year in Australia. He didn't magically improve in England, any more than Cape Of Good Hope magically improved when he left Hong Kong - they just met different opposition.

So any comparison between the world ratings of Silent Witness then and Sacred Kingdom now is nonsense.

All that can be said about the horse getting 123 is that the handicappers are getting more practice at rating horses from outside Europe and probably moving towards the truth - though 120 for Benbaun beating up a bunch of Class Two horses in Paris stands out as silly.

Of course, 123 does not make Sacred Kingdom the world's best but at least connections know how to shortcut the rise to the top position.

Miss Andretti remains the world's "top rated" sprinter by virtue of the invisible four points she gets for being female.

So her 120 has to be read as 124. Why we can't just publish ratings in black and white and call her 124 remains yet another mystery of the classifications.

She got an automatic three-point raise to 120 after travelling to Ascot to win the King's Stand, beating UK local Dandy Man and her compatriots, Magnus and Takeover Target. We wonder how many points she would have got for beating Magnus and Takeover Target in a race in Australia. Probably none.

Thus the lesson is simple.

Sacred Kingdom can easily become much higher rated than Silent Witness by turning up to win second-rate prize money at Ascot against lesser opposition than he will regularly face here.