Summer Bird pointed for The BC

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

What horse isn't being campaigned in the best possible place to WIN?

If she was truly a great horse ... and her connections had any balls ... as a prep for the Woodward... they would have entered her in both the AP Smithwick and NY Turf Writers and she'd have swept both of them while fencing perfectly.

[boswd]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Rachel Alexandra will beat Summer Bird like a drum.

Not the Summer Bird that showed up at The Traver's, the only thing we can on is The Preakness RA Held on, you all can try and convince yourselfs she was in totall control but she held on and if that race was a 1 1/4 she loses, plain and simple. Summer Bird loves the extra distance.

At a 1 1/8 RA wins 1 1/4 Beating Summer Bird like a drum? I don't think so.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

If she was truly a great horse ... and her connections had any balls ... as a prep for the Woodward... they would have entered her in both the AP Smithwick and NY Turf Writers and she'd have swept both of them while fencing perfectly.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by jms62

If the race is at distance and at a Track having a bias that heavily favors RA you are right. Any other Distance / Track it is a moot point becuase RA won't be there.

The track was fair to all styles in the Haskell.

Originally Posted by jms62

She is being managed not to ever be put in a situation that isn't heavily tilted in her favor. This won't be lost on those voting for HOY.

Yes ... they will surely be more impressed with Zenyatta for ducking the Hollywood Gold Cup while her stablemate Life Is Sweet was entered .. so she could take on laughing stock competition of her own gender.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by jms62

If the race is at distance and at a Track having a bias that heavily favors RA you are right. Any other Distance / Track it is a moot point becuase RA won't be there. She is being managed not to ever be put in a situation that isn't heavily tilted in her favor. This won't be lost on those voting for HOY.

I doubt this is true. PG1985 has a better handle on things than 90% of the voters.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by boswd

Not the Summer Bird that showed up at The Traver's, the only thing we can on is The Preakness RA Held on, you all can try and convince yourselfs she was in totall control but she held on and if that race was a 1 1/4 she loses, plain and simple. Summer Bird loves the extra distance.

At a 1 1/8 RA wins 1 1/4 Beating Summer Bird like a drum? I don't think so.

Rachel Alexandra was open lengths the best in the Preakness ... and had every right to throw in the towell late after dueling with a VERY fast horse in Big Drama through very fast fractions and being forced very wide into the 1st turn.

Yes - with Big Drama as his rabbit - Summer Bird might have a shot to beat RA at 10 furlongs. In a fairly run race though - he can't compete.

This is handicaping 101 stuff.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

The track was fair to all styles in the Haskell.

The rail was not the place to be that day. Summer Bird pressed the pace on the worst part of the track.

[boswd]

Well hopefully if RA does well on Saturday they will point her to the JCGC and she can answer her distance question.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by CSC

You want the beyer answer, when in doubt always refer to beyers. They are the determining factor.

Using your logic Tiago was superior to Curlin.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Yes - with Big Drama as his rabbit - Summer Bird might have a shot to beat RA at 10 furlongs. In a fairly run race though - he can't compete.

This is handicaping 101 stuff.

The Summer Bird today is a much better horse than Mine That Bird was in the Preakness. Can't compete? I'm getting a barrel full of laughs today and it's only barely past noon.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Using your logic Tiago was superior to Curlin.

You mean pre Dubai or post Dubai? 2 different horses.

Edit-BTW it isn't my logic, I'm just using the same old excuse everyone else does when comparing horses.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

The rail was not the place to be that day. Summer Bird pressed the pace on the worst part of the track.

The rail was probably where you wanted to be if anything.

I thought Borel was smart to get RA right on top of the rail turning for home - and finish on it.

Duke of Mischief saved ground throughout and finished just 2.5 lengths back of Summer Bird.

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by CSC

You mean pre Dubai or post Dubai? 2 different horses.

Edit-BTW it isn't my logic, I'm just using the same excuse everyone else does when comparing horses.

The only place he was any different was on the different surfaces. Dubai had no effect on Curlin.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

The rail was probably where you wanted to be if anything.

I thought Borel was smart to get RA right on top of the rail turning for home - and finish on it.

Duke of Mischief saved ground throughout and finished just 2.5 lengths back of Summer Bird.

After the heavy rains came, horses racing off the rail appeared to have a distinct advantage. While non-favored winners such as Jersey Town, Actin Good, Endymion and D'Wild Ride all took the overland route to victory, short-priced speedsters such as Despite the Odds, Sunday Geisha and Man of Danger did not fare well racing inside.

Where Rachel ran in the stretch was of no consequence given her superiority that day.

No-factor Papa Clem offered a mild rally outside; no-factor Duke of Mischief offered a mild rally inside. Neither probably means anything in terms of trying to assess preferred paths that day.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by CSC

I'm getting a barrel full of laughs today and it's only barely past noon.

What's most laugh worthy is your contradictions.

Typing about Cigar you posted the following ....

Originally Posted by CSC

He was a great horse though, as honest as the higher power has ever made.

Typing about Rachel Alexandra you say ....

Originally Posted by CSC

Which may mean she is only a great filly on dirt, she's one dimensional. Like it or not Zenyatta has won on both surfaces, Careless Jewel has won on both also or atleast shown she can handle both. In this instance they are superior to her unless she can prove she can win on Poly also. Brilliant probably not as her...but certainly more versatile which to me is also a factor in determining a great horse.

Last I checked ... Cigar was 1-for-11 lifetime on turf and was getting blown out by 8 lengths in allowance races before switching to dirt and becoming a star.

Yet he's a versatile horse who's "as honest as the higher power has ever created" ....

While Rachel Alexandra is "one-dimensional" and inferior to Careless Jewel and Zenyatta because her lifetime record is only 1-for-1 on synthetics.


CSC feels like an elaborate ploy to keep Blackthroatedwind from posting here.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

What's most laugh worthy is your contradictions.

Typing about Cigar you posted the following ....




Typing about Rachel Alexandra you say ....





Last I checked ... Cigar was 1-for-11 lifetime on turf and was getting blown out by 8 lengths in allowance races before switching to dirt and becoming a star.

Yet he's a versatile horse who's "as honest as the higher power has ever created" ....

While Rachel Alexandra is "one-dimensional" and inferior to Careless Jewel and Zenyatta because her lifetime record is only 1-for-1 on synthetics.


CSC feels like an elaborate ploy to keep Blackthroatedwind from posting here.

Firstly, What does this have to do with the Summer Bird and RA argument? Secondly individually selectively quotes and placing them in the wrong context to try to hurt someone's credibility because you may be getting hot under the collar is not what I expected from you. If I am wrong I am sorry, but this is a discussion and I hold no hard feelings once I am logged on or off.

Thank you Drugs.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

No-factor Papa Clem offered a mild rally outside; no-factor Duke of Mischief offered a mild rally inside. Neither probably means anything in terms of trying to assess preferred paths that day.

The Haskell was race 13. The winners of races 11, 12 and 14 all raced inside.

Summer Bird and Duke of Mischief were certainly not hindered by any path bias. After the rain came much earlier in the day it appeared that the outside might have offered a little better footing .. but as the day went on and track was taken care of.. the inside was just fine at the very least.

[tector]

Seriously, Drugs--how do you deal with these morons? They are worse than those horsey broads on the AOL of old. They have no idea whatsoever what they saw in the Preakness.

JFC. I'd kill-filter these dolts, but, unfortunately, you still get all the replies to them.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by CSC

Firstly, What does this have to do with the Summer Bird and RA argument?

It shows that you are making no sense at all.

Originally Posted by CSC

Secondly individually selectively quotes and placing them in the wrong context to try to hurt someone's credibility because you may be getting hot under the collar is not what I expected from you.

For the record .. I'm not "hot under the collar" in the least and I'm not concerned with attacking your board cred.

Originally Posted by CSC

If I am wrong I am sorry, but this is a discussion and I hold no hard feelings once I am logged on or off.

Thank you Drugs.

It is Mr. DrugS to you.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

The Haskell was race 13. The winners of races 11, 12 and 14 all raced inside.

I guess we may have to agree to disagree. But Get Serious winning at 3-5 by a neck over a turf horse like Kiss the Kid after getting away with a 49 half probably does not support the conclusion that the rail was OK. If anything, under the circumstances (and his previously shown affinity for slop at Monmouth), you'd probably expect him to win by a wider margin.