10/3 (BEL): JCGC, Hirsch, Beldame, Flower Bowl, Vosburgh (G1's)

[Kasept]

6TH (3:23) Beldame S. (G1)

1 1/8 Miles | Fillies and Mares | 3 Year Olds And Up Stakes | Purse: $600,000

1 Music Note Maragh R 123 L
2 Captain's Lover (SAF) Velazquez J R 123 L
3 Unbridled Belle Dominguez R A 123 Blk-Off L
4 Copper State Bridgmohan S X 123 L
5 With Flying Colors Castellano J J 123 Blk-Off L

A-Coupled: Captain's Lover (SAF) and Unbridled Belle



7TH (3:59) Vosburgh S. (G1)

6 Furlongs | Open | 3 Year Olds And Up Stakes | Purse: $400,000

1 Go Go Shoot Maragh R 124 L
2 Peace Chant Desormeaux K J 124 L
3 Munnings Velazquez J R 122 L
4 Kodiak Kowboy Bridgmohan S X 124 L
5 Fabulous Strike Dominguez R A 124 L



8TH (4:35) Flower Bowl Invitational S. (G1)

1 1/4 Miles (Inner turf) | Fillies and Mares | 3 Year Olds And Up Stakes | Purse: $600,000

1 Leamington Prado E S 119 L
2 Pure Clan Leparoux J R 121 L
3 Dynaforce Desormeaux K J 123 L
4 Criticism (GB) Castellano J J 121 L
5 Carribean Sunset (IRE) Dominguez R A 119 L
6 Beauty O' Gwaun (IRE) Dominguez R A 115 Blk-On FTL
7 Queen of Hearts Espinoza J L 119 L
8 Moneycantbuymelove (IRE) Spencer J P 115 FTL

A-Coupled: Carribean Sunset (IRE) and Beauty O' Gwaun (IRE)



9TH (5:09) Joe Hirsch Turf Classic Invitational S. (G1)

1 1/2 Miles (Turf) | Open | 3 Year Olds And Up Stakes | Purse: $600,000

1 Interpatation Albarado R J 126 L
2 Al Khali Desormeaux K J 121 L
3 Telling Castellano J J 126 L
4 Musketier (GER) Prado E S 126 L
5 Gio Ponti Dominguez R A 126 L
6 Winchester Dominguez R A 126 L
7 Ready's Echo Velazquez J R 126 L
8 Presious Passion Trujillo E 126 L
9 Grand Couturier (GB) Garcia Alan 126 L

A-Coupled: Gio Ponti and Winchester



10TH (5:43) Jockey Club Gold Cup S. (G1)

1 1/4 Miles | Open | 3 Year Olds And Up Stakes | Purse: $750,000

1 Sette E Mezzo Dominguez R A 126 L
2 Macho Again Albarado R J 126 L
3 Summer Bird Desormeaux K J 122 L
4 Tizway Maragh R 126 L
5 Asiatic Boy (ARG) Garcia Alan 126 Blk-On L
6 Dry Martini Prado E S 126 L
7 Quality Road Velazquez J R 122 L

[Sightseek]

Why do they continue to couple entries?!?

[jms62]

The usual 5 horse fields in a grade 1... Make that a 4 betting Interest and 5 Betting Interest. I guess they will blame the economy when they miss their numbers not the product they are giving us.

[knickslions2]

Nice gold cup!

[DaTruth]

Originally Posted by jms62

The usual 5 horse fields in a grade 1... Make that a 4 betting Interest and 5 Betting Interest. I guess they will blame the economy when they miss their numbers not the product they are giving us.

You really can't blame NYRA. It isn't their fault if folks don't want to run for a $600,000 purse.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by DaTruth

You really can't blame NYRA. It isn't their fault if folks don't want to run for a $600,000 purse.

It's strictly based on the Breeders Cup. Does anyone think if the BC wasn't on synthetic that Mine that Bird would be in the Goodwood instead of the JCGC? Or that Icon Project would go to the Spinster instead of the Beldame?

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

It's strictly based on the Breeders Cup. Does anyone think if the BC wasn't on synthetic that Mine that Bird would be in the Goodwood instead of the JCGC? Or that Icon Project would go to the Spinster instead of the Beldame?

TRUE....

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

It's strictly based on the Breeders Cup.

The real problem is that there are only so many horses to go around. With everything rendered essentially a Breeders Cup prep, you have a race in almost every division in NY, KY and CA each of the next two weeks. Then add in races like the Cotillion, Indiana Derby, the Calder 2YO races, Canadian International, EP Taylor, the Hawthorne Gold Cup and the Meadowlands Cup, and it's no wonder that the talent is spread thin. Aside from Icon Project and Mine That Bird, are there any other horses "prepping" out west that would otherwise be in NY on Saturday? And even if those horses were here, it's not like the card would be significantly better from a wagering perspective.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

The real problem is that there are only so many horses to go around. With everything rendered essentially a Breeders Cup prep, you have a race in almost every division in NY, KY and CA each of the next two weeks. Then add in races like the Cotillion, Indiana Derby, the Calder 2YO races, Canadian International, EP Taylor, the Hawthorne Gold Cup and the Meadowlands Cup, and it's no wonder that the talent is spread thin. Aside from Icon Project and Mine That Bird, are there any other horses "prepping" out west that would otherwise be in NY on Saturday? And even if those horses were here, it's not like the card would be significantly better from a wagering perspective.

Buh Buh Buh But

This is the only meet where G1 DIRT races are being offered. (Or so I hear on the NYRA show.)

EVERYBODY knows that DIRT is superior to the other surfaces, don't they? And, it then follows that EVERYONE would be in NY running for G1 money on the dirt, right?

Horses really shouldn't be running on POLY, right?

Yeah, the HUGE fields at BEL really bear this out.

NYRA and its whipped DIRT followers will soon realize that times are changing.

Maybe they'll take another race off the turf tomorrow. Yippee.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

The real problem is that there are only so many horses to go around. With everything rendered essentially a Breeders Cup prep, you have a race in almost every division in NY, KY and CA each of the next two weeks. Then add in races like the Cotillion, Indiana Derby, the Calder 2YO races, Canadian International, EP Taylor, the Hawthorne Gold Cup and the Meadowlands Cup, and it's no wonder that the talent is spread thin. Aside from Icon Project and Mine That Bird, are there any other horses "prepping" out west that would otherwise be in NY on Saturday? And even if those horses were here, it's not like the card would be significantly better from a wagering perspective.

Bullsbay was going to the Goodwood before injury. Rachel would certainly be on this card if the BC was on dirt. I have to imagine that the Vosburgh would have a much larger field, the Forego had 12 horses and the King's Bishop had 9. You are right that there are way too many races but the BC being on synthetics this year is certainly playing a part in the weak card on Saturday with horses wanting to prep on synthetics and horses not racing this weekend cause they have no interest in running in a BC on synthetics.

[King Glorious]

I think it's more the number of races than the surface. As Parsix says, there aren't a lot of horses that are running in other areas that you could say for certainty would be in NY if the BC wasn't on synthetic.

Isn't Awesome Gem a California based runner? He's running in the Hawthorne Gold Cup. I just think it's a matter of so many races and spots to chose from that people look for easy ones, an obvious exception being Cocoa Beach going to take on Zenyatta but even that comes because of the stable having so many horses looking at the same races.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Bullsbay was going to the Goodwood before injury. Rachel would certainly be on this card if the BC was on dirt. I have to imagine that the Vosburgh would have a much larger field, the Forego had 12 horses and the King's Bishop had 9. You are right that there are way too many races but the BC being on synthetics this year is certainly playing a part in the weak card on Saturday with horses wanting to prep on synthetics and horses not racing this weekend cause they have no interest in running in a BC on synthetics.

In several of the races in NY this weekend, the pro tem division leaders are racing. With all the other options, why bang your head against the likes of Summer Bird, Gio Ponti, Macho Again and Fabulous Strike when you can go to other locales and run against weaker fields for good money.

When Zenyatta shows up in the Lady's Secret, they'll probably have a short field; same thing is likely when Icon Project and Forever Together run at Keeneland next weekend.

One thing about the Vosburgh: I wish that they would return it to 7F. It was a far more interesting race when contested at 7F than it has been since shortened to 6F to coincide with the distance of the BC Sprint.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

It's strictly based on the Breeders Cup. Does anyone think if the BC wasn't on synthetic that Mine that Bird would be in the Goodwood instead of the JCGC? Or that Icon Project would go to the Spinster instead of the Beldame?

True to a point however NYRA has to share responsibility for not putting pressure on trainers to enter a few horses to get fields of more than 4 and 5 horses. They can't even offer a Super...A cheap claimer can stagger home for 3rd money. The incentive awards at Toga seemed to work. Also, is it just me but the this years version of Beldame seems like a race I have seen over and over same horses battling it out.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by jms62

True to a point however NYRA has to share responsibility for not putting pressure on trainers to enter a few horses to get fields of more than 4 and 5 horses. They can't even offer a Super...A cheap claimer can stagger home for 3rd money. The incentive awards at Toga seemed to work. Also, is it just me but the this years version of Beldame seems like a race I have seen over and over same horses battling it out.

You don't think stakes coordinator Andrew Byrne and PJ Campo were hustling to get every possible nominee and entrant they could for these races? The incentive awards? These are Grade I stakes and among the most important of their kind. Running in them is its' own incentive. And while runners get a 50% rebate on the fee for passing the entry box, it still costs owners money to run in these races. Instead of the blind and idol claim that nothing was done to fill the entry box better, I'd love to hear the names of the horses that were appropriate for these spots. And since they only pay for the top five finishers, who exactly of those staggering cheap claimers from those forthcoming lists were going to finish ahead of the Beldame or Vosburgh runners?

The filly/mare main track (Beldame) and sprint (Vos) division races were impacted by the glut of similar stakes on the schedule around the country and the synthetic track opportunities for same in a year where the Breeders Cup is being run on a synthetic track. And it must be just you that feels like the Beldame runners have been banging heads repeatedly, because among Music Note, the Team Valor pair, Copper State and With Flying Colors, only Copper State and Unbridled Belle have ever been in the same race: the 2008 Obeah.

[GPK]

Nice to see Interpatation in over his head...yet again

I don't get. What happened to horses being spotted where they have a actual shot of winning?

They should cancel all 5 of them and run 5 claiming turf sprints.

[jms62]

You don't think stakes coordinator Andrew Byrne and PJ Campo were hustling to get every possible nominee and entrant they could for these races?
Steve I can only comment on the result and not the attempt. And the result of 4 and 5 horse grade 1 fields is on a regular basis is truly pathetic.

Instead of the blind and idol claim that nothing was done to fill the entry box better, I'd love to hear the names of the horses that were appropriate for these spots. And since they only pay for the top five finishers, who exactly of those staggering cheap claimers from those forthcoming lists were going to finish ahead of the Beldame or Vosburgh runners?

I don't have the answers and it is not my job to find the answers. I am simply Joe Public; a consumer of their product and 4 / 5 horse graded stakes on a regular basis in my opinion is a piss poor product. As customer it is of no interest to me the reasons why. In any other business those that fail to deliver the desired results are replaced by others who could or who you think could. Eventually you find someone who does or your business fails.

And it must be just you that feels like because among Music Note, the Team Valor pair, Copper State and With Flying Colors, only Copper State and Unbridled Belle have ever been in the same race: the 2008 Obeah

I stand corrected, I guess its the 4 horse fields that are Ground Hog Day to me.

Racing is truly a funny business. IT is the only business that attacks its customers when they complain about the product and then wonders why they
are losing customers. Still love the show.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by GBBob

I sort of know the connections..They just can't help themselves. It's all about the glamour and nothing about winning the race to them. Although he will suck up for third or fourth occasionally

Kinda sad Bob. Whats he got? 5 wins from 45 or so starts? Clearly Grade I calibur

[Gander]

Originally Posted by GPK

Kinda sad Bob. Whats he got? 5 wins from 45 or so starts? Clearly Grade I calibur

I thought about Interpreation last night. Always put in races like this where his chances are zilch. I dont know how an owner can get pleasure in watching his horse compete at a level where its obviosuly not happening. Its pretty sad actually.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by jms62

Racing is truly a funny business. IT is the only business that attacks its customers when they complain about the product and then wonders why they are losing customers. Still love the show.

Who's being attacked? Why is any response that answers a critique over-dramatically interpreted as an 'attack'? I provided my response and it was written without rancor.

Frankly, I don't get the complaint about 'the product'. The 'product' has been great, really, all year. Are fields stretched thin these weeks with Oak Tree, Belmont, Turfway and then Keeneland stacked up on top of each other? Yeah. Read Crist's piece about this from last weekend.

There aren't enough top horses to fill every stake.. And people have selective memories if they think every stake historically had overflow fields 10, 20, 40 and 75 years ago. They didn't. As a snapshot, Kelso was in fields of 8, 7, 6, 4 and 6 when he won his 5 straight Gold Cups in the 60's.

There are too many stakes that are similarly conditioned that are run near each other that siphon the horses, and the landscape has changed so that a place like Presque Isle Downs is a legitimate venue to run your horse if you're considering a Breeders' Cup try this year.

Why does the $750k Cotillion have to be run this week? Why shouldn't those 3yo fillies be facing off against elders already in a race like the Beldame the way Quality Road and Summer Bird are facing elders in the JCGC? (How about running the Cotillion on the Pennsylvania Derby card? It gets a little close to the Alabama, but you get the idea..)

What's really more accurate about the business of racing, is that it's a game where the customers are rarely if ever satisfied, and are constantly searching for things about which to complain. Revel in the next of a series of weekends of generally outstanding racing, instead of focusing on less than ideal circumstances of things that are hard to control in the environment as it currently exists.

The Beldame, at the last second, surprisingly lost a 6th horse that made it a very good race. As for the Vosburgh, it's a great race with the 5 it got. Generally, small stake fields are indicators of horses present that are standouts... Like Fabulous Strike, Go Go Shoot and Munnings. Get a copy of Champions and look at the field sizes of some of the famous historic races over the years. It will be an eye-opener.