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  #21  
Old 10-28-2009, 11:29 AM
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CSC CSC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linny
Seeking the Gold was nosed by Forty Niner in both the Haskell and the Travers. In fact the photos of the two races are nearly identical.
And Alydar was beaten by Affirmed also, but was generally a more successful sire.
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  #22  
Old 10-28-2009, 11:40 AM
freddymo freddymo is offline
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Originally Posted by CSC
And Alydar was beaten by Affirmed also, but was generally a more successful sire.

Seeking the Gold was a dam good horse with a wonderful pedigree.
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  #23  
Old 10-28-2009, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSC
A list should be started: leading sires via awful horses on the track.
Slewacide is one that comes to mind who didn't do squat on the track but was a pretty decent stallion. He sired Clevor Trevor, Slew of Damascus, and some other decent runners and was also the broodmare sire of Funny Cide.
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  #24  
Old 10-29-2009, 12:05 AM
reese reese is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freddymo
Seeking the Gold was a dam good horse with a wonderful pedigree.
Why is STG even mentioned in this thread?
In the money 14 of 15 races. Earned 2.3 million in purses 20 years ago. Equivalent to about 4M today( excluding BC and Dubai purses).

Owner: Ogden Phipps
Breeder: Ogden Phipps
State Bred: KY
Winnings: 15 Starts: 8 - 6 - 0, $2,307,000

At 3: Won Super Derby G1, Dwyer Stakes G1, Peter Pan Stakes G2, Swale Stakes.

Sire of:

4 Breeders' Cup Champions
2 Eclipse Champions
Over $85 million Progeny Earnings
Pensioned from stallion duty at Claiborne Farms in KY. Stood for $125K in 2005-2008, his last three years at stud.CHAMPION
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  #25  
Old 10-29-2009, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSC
And Alydar was beaten by Affirmed also, but was generally a more successful sire.
Generally,,,,,,,,,. Alydar was far better at stud than Affirmed.
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  #26  
Old 10-29-2009, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by 2Hot4TV
Generally,,,,,,,,,. Alydar was far better at stud than Affirmed.
Interestingly enough none of the top colts sired by Alydar turned out to be good stallions. Alysheba, Criminal Type, Easy Goer, Turkoman, Strike the Gold...
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  #27  
Old 10-29-2009, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Interestingly enough none of the top colts sired by Alydar turned out to be good stallions. Alysheba, Criminal Type, Easy Goer, Turkoman, Strike the Gold...
Did any of his top fillies turn out to be good stallions?

What's odd is that his best son (in terms of being a good stallion) stands in California. Benchmark.

He had another son in California that was a decent sire too. Kleven.
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  #28  
Old 10-29-2009, 01:07 PM
freddymo freddymo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Interestingly enough none of the top colts sired by Alydar turned out to be good stallions. Alysheba, Criminal Type, Easy Goer, Turkoman, Strike the Gold...

Easy Goer had what 2 or 3 crops like 120 foals from which 17 made over 100k 65% started and won and had My Flag, Wills Way, Furlough etc.. hardily a bust
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  #29  
Old 10-29-2009, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Indian Charlie
Did any of his top fillies turn out to be good stallions?

What's odd is that his best son (in terms of being a good stallion) stands in California. Benchmark.

He had another son in California that was a decent sire too. Kleven.
I'm sure that someone has a theory to why this happens but it is one of the reasons why breeding is so difficult.
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  #30  
Old 10-29-2009, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freddymo
Easy Goer had what 2 or 3 crops like 120 foals from which 17 made over 100k 65% started and won and had My Flag Furlough etc.. hardily a bust
The odds were that Easy Goer was going to be a bust. The vast majority were too damn sore to train on. Considering the book of mares he got he didnt produce much. When I was with Jerkens we had one of his better fillies, Smooth Charmer. She was a three times in ice a day cripple but had a lot of heart.
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  #31  
Old 10-29-2009, 01:24 PM
freddymo freddymo is offline
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Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
The odds were that Easy Goer was going to be a bust. The vast majority were too damn sore to train on. Considering the book of mares he got he didnt produce much. When I was with Jerkens we had one of his better fillies, Smooth Charmer. She was a three times in ice a day cripple but had a lot of heart.
Bc Juvy, Ballerina, Travers and Jim dandy in 120 foals of which the Japanese took about 20.. Smooth Charmer is Phipps stock or was anyway.. Can't speak to the soundness of them but there was a very high percentage of starters and winners
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  #32  
Old 10-29-2009, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by freddymo
Bc Juvy, Ballerina, Travers and Jim dandy in 120 foals of which the Japanese took about 20.. Smooth Charmer is Phipps stock or was anyway.. Can't speak to the soundness of them but there was a very high percentage of starters and winners
Sc was Stonerside.

People have been tricked into thinking Birdstone is a good sire.
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  #33  
Old 10-29-2009, 02:23 PM
freddymo freddymo is offline
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Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Sc was Stonerside.

People have been tricked into thinking Birdstone is a good sire.
Her dam is a half to Rythm and Not for Love. The dam is a Phipps cull.. Smooth Charmer is 100% phipps other then the fact that Stonerside bought her..
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  #34  
Old 10-29-2009, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
I'm sure that someone has a theory to why this happens but it is one of the reasons why breeding is so difficult.
Perhaps those two sons of Alydar fared well in California because of the preponderance of speed in the breeding out there.

Just a guess.
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  #35  
Old 10-29-2009, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by freddymo
Her dam is a half to Rythm and Not for Love. The dam is a Phipps cull.. Smooth Charmer is 100% phipps other then the fact that Stonerside bought her..
And...?
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  #36  
Old 10-29-2009, 05:30 PM
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I don't know what kind of horse(s) he will produce, but I would breed to him for the $5k.
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  #37  
Old 10-29-2009, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by DogsUp
I don't know what kind of horse(s) he will produce, but I would breed to him for the $5k.
Why?
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  #38  
Old 10-29-2009, 05:47 PM
freddymo freddymo is offline
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Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
And...?
She is the direct offspring of the great Dance Number and Oscillate was bred to Easy Goer.. She is 3/4's Phipps with a splash of Slew..

I said Smooth Charmer was "Phipps Stock" you suggested Stonerside which puchased her.. They had no stock at that time they had what they bought
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  #39  
Old 10-29-2009, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by freddymo
She is the direct offspring of the great Dance Number and Oscillate was bred to Easy Goer.. She is 3/4's Phipps with a splash of Slew..

I said Smooth Charmer was "Phipps Stock" you suggested Stonerside which puchased her.. They had no stock at that time they had what they bought
So she may well have been good regardless of who her sire was
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  #40  
Old 10-29-2009, 06:17 PM
freddymo freddymo is offline
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Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
So she may well have been good regardless of who her sire was

First you suggest Easy Goer was going to be a bust eventhough he had a plethora of winners and a very high percentage of starters. Then I show you a myriad of Graded winners including BC Champion and a Travers winner.. Then lo' and behold you realize you had a decent Phipps filly that was OK and when you realize that her owner was Stonerside but she is a direct Phippsite you turn it around..You really should run for a seat in congress with spinning like this..

And I agree Oscillate being a daughter of "blue hen" Dance Number could have be bred to Scavs and produced a race type
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