Obama: Too much debt could fuel double-dip recession

[Riot]

Originally Posted by GBBob

Even so, this pattern of ideologically-slanted errors illustrates the danger of packaging a news operation around a core of opinion programming. As long as Fox News is a network by and for conservatives, the people who produce its shows -- even its "objective" shows -- are going to see in the news what they expect to see rather than what it really is.[/i]

I never realized that Rupert Murdoch owns both FOX and the Wall Street Journal.

And I see the Anti-Defamation League is tired of it, too. Glenn Beck gets it here: http://www.adl.org/PresRele/Extremism_72/5655_72.htm

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

So I guess her "facts" can be taken as a grain of salt or however that saying goes. .

You mean, a grain of salt like saying "millions" but not having any source for that other than "I think so"?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

Like who?

Are any of you guys still in the "we shouldn't have done anything" camp? As I recall, there were not alot of alternative suggestions offered up in the past.

Without rehashing the entire debate, the stimilus package passed by Congress was not universally hailed as you suggest. The problem with the Obama stimilus packages was there was very little actually stimilus money involved.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

But the stimulus package has helped.

It has? You really think that that was $800 billion dollars well spent? The economy is doing so well because of it? New and existing businesses are being created and expanding, putting people back to work? Where?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

Yes, and the actual "real" unemployment rate previously has been 8% when it is reported as 4%, etc. Everyone knows that. The unemployment numbers used always do not count them. But using the same numbers, calculated the same way, as we have always measured unemployment rates, makes sense when comparing, hum?

So you the unemployment rate really isnt that bad? Or are you trying to say that in times of 4% unemployment there are the same % of workers who dont find work after thier benefits run out as there is in times of 10% unemployment?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

I never realized that Rupert Murdoch owns both FOX and the Wall Street Journal.

And I see the Anti-Defamation League is tired of it, too. Glenn Beck gets it here: http://www.adl.org/PresRele/Extremism_72/5655_72.htm

Recovery.com has totally made up information and yet the discussion turns to Fox news showing old pictures in lieu of new ones. The Govt out and out LIES about billion dollar programs and Obama says that we shouldnt focus on that. At least Fox had the courtesy to apologize.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Riot

Yeah, millions and millions and millions! Because .... where did you get that info from?

I never said millions and millions idiot and that was a lame response. But you couldn't even do the simple research to determine if there was an extension and then apply the simple ****ing math. If you weren't sitting around in your ****ing bath robe stuffing your face with bon bons all day and were in the real world rather than googling and using the first thing that comes up (Usually Wikipedia) you would ****ing get it.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Riot

So share yours - I'd love to see where you got your "millions" number from?

Here you ****ing moron. No extensions. Do the ****ing math jerkoff. Calculate all the possible work visas not simply H1 then factor in the extensions and those that get in queue for Green Cards. Get out of the house and into the real world. I'm pretty much done with you now as it is impossible to argue with someone whose view of the ****ing world is Wikipedia.

http://www.immspec.com/h-1b-visa-extension.htm

http://www.path2usa.com/immigration/..._extension.htm

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by jms62

I never said millions and millions idiot and that was a lame response. But you couldn't even do the simple research to determine if there was an extension and then apply the simple ****ing math. If you weren't sitting around in your ****ing bath robe stuffing your face with bon bons all day and were in the real world rather than googling and using the first thing that comes up (Usually Wikipedia) you would ****ing get it.

Is it really all that? I use to get the same way and it really is no way to spend your day. Go get yourself a nice of cup of coffee and enjoy the morning.

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Is it really all that? I use to get the same way and it really is no way to spend your day. Go get yourself a nice of cup of coffee and enjoy the morning.

That could be part of the problem..maybe too many cups?

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by SOREHOOF

Facts, Shmacts. Liberals don't deal in facts. Only hope and promises.

Run for office. You have my vote

[jms62]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Is it really all that? I use to get the same way and it really is no way to spend your day. Go get yourself a nice of cup of coffee and enjoy the morning.

Sorry about the rant but I have zero tolerance for people that are stupid, lazy or obnoxious and she hit the trifecta

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by jms62

Sorry about the rant but I have zero tolerance for people that are stupid, lazy or obnoxious and she hit the trifecta

[Bigsmc]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

It has? You really think that that was $800 billion dollars well spent? The economy is doing so well because of it? New and existing businesses are being created and expanding, putting people back to work? Where?

The company I work for has actually benefitted from stimulus money.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Bigsmc

The company I work for has actually benefitted from stimulus money.

OK, I don't doubt you, however, let me ask -- unless you did the accounting yourself, would you have a number on how much it benefitted, both in terms of increased profits and any "jobs saved"?

In the simplest case, let's say you owned the company. You were planning to lay off people, because you had to and the balance sheet was in the red. Then you get a shot in the arm from the government and no longer need to lay people off. That's obviously a legitimate case where you could say jobs were saved. You knew you had to lay people off, you knew how many, you're obviously not deceiving yourself -- that's all real.

Now, go to the more common case where you can't be sure of the validity of any information from the bookkeeping, management or legal arms of the company. Many would argue that the potential for deception is high, saying "Oh yeah, we had jobs saved as a result of the stimulus." That's where a lot of the skepticism comes from on this issue.

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by joeydb

OK, I don't doubt you, however, let me ask -- unless you did the accounting yourself, would you have a number on how much it benefitted, both in terms of increased profits and any "jobs saved"?

In the simplest case, let's say you owned the company. You were planning to lay off people, because you had to and the balance sheet was in the red. Then you get a shot in the arm from the government and no longer need to lay people off. That's obviously a legitimate case where you could say jobs were saved. You knew you had to lay people off, you knew how many, you're obviously not deceiving yourself -- that's all real.

Now, go to the more common case where you can't be sure of the validity of any information from the bookkeeping, management or legal arms of the company. Many would argue that the potential for deception is high, saying "Oh yeah, we had jobs saved as a result of the stimulus." That's where a lot of the skepticism comes from on this issue.

But Joey..be honest..you and most of the right wingers won't believe ANYTHING that a Dem or Liberal says. You don't believe in Global Warming, you don't believe that the Stimulus did anything good for anyone, etc. So why would you believe Bigs or anyone else who claims there was a benefit?

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by GBBob

But Joey..be honest..you and most of the right wingers won't believe ANYTHING that a Dem or Liberal says. You don't believe in Global Warming, you don't believe that the Stimulus did anything good for anyone, etc. So why would you believe Bigs or anyone else who claims there was a benefit?

Because the most offensive thing about all this "debt driving spending which is driving more debt" vicious cycle is that there is no math being performed or shown as to how much it actually helped. In other words, the economy itself, without a stimulus package, still has the ability to recover. Some say it would have recovered faster without the stimulus package because the debt load and resulting tax load on the citizens is less. Others say the stimulus helped in a way that the economy alone couldn't do. But nobody is breaking down exactly (or ballpark) how much recovery is from the economy itself versus the stimulus.

For credibility, the supporters of the stimulus and ANY NEW SPENDING must show that math, for all to see. And yes, the liberals who are now in charge are proposing most of the new spending, and cutting nothing from their previous programs. Defense they'd love to cut -- in fact that's the only place they CAN cut, politically. They've been for "less weapons more treaties" for decades. But sometimes the treaties don't work, and the weapons always do, which is why potential adversaries fear the weapons and less so the treaties.

Check this out: http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Both parties should be working to turn that into a national surplus clock.

Global Warming or Global Cooling or Climate change (which happens every season) is a separate issue for the most part, except that all of the global proposals expect America to pay the biggest share and curtail our growth (big surprise) while countries like China, who has trillions to loan to us despite being called a "developing" country, is expected to pay far less, if they feel like it, and if anyone has the guts to enforce that. How you enforce payment on a nuclear-armed country with over a billion people and who is the current leading creditor of the United States is anybody's guess.

[witchdoctor]

Originally Posted by Riot

But the stimulus package has helped.

In 2015 alone, the estimated interest due - $533 billion - is equal to a third of the federal income taxes expected to be paid that year






http://money.cnn.com/2009/11/19/news...rest/index.htm

[Riot]

Originally Posted by jms62

I never said millions and millions idiot and that was a lame response. But you couldn't even do the simple research to determine if there was an extension and then apply the simple ****ing math. If you weren't sitting around in your ****ing bath robe stuffing your face with bon bons all day and were in the real world rather than googling and using the first thing that comes up (Usually Wikipedia) you would ****ing get it.

The typical raging, reactive personal attack response of somebody who throws something out there, with zero backup, and got caught doing it.

Your "millions" - just one - claim doesn't add up via the "simple math". Not even close. Period. I have tried the research, and yeah, there's plenty of info out there aside from the source I quoted, which happens to have all the numbers on one page.

And there's nothing out there to support your contention. You can't even provide it.

And you dare rudely and personally attack and insult me?

Because, you effing moron, there are not more than 65,000 people allotted these visas a year in the past 10 years, upped to 165,000 and 195,00 a couple years - and if we added all that up, with everyone ever allocated one of these visas still in this country and never losing the visa (not true), it STILL wouldn't be close to the "millions" you maintain.

Oh, yeah - and let's not fail to notice how, in the middle of your screaming insults at me, you changed your argument:

Originally Posted by jms62
There currently are millions of foreign workers on H1 visa's in this country doing all kinds of white collar jobs (accounting, medical, IT, etc,etc).

Riot says (paraphrasing): Millions on H1 visas? Don't see how based on numbers.

Originally Posted jms62
Calculate all the possible work visas not simply H1 then factor in the extensions and those that get in queue for Green Cards.

So now you say your "millions" number is based upon ALL possible work visas and extensions, not the specific H1 visa as you intially said, and I questioned.

Who meets the, "stupid, lazy, obnoxious" trifecta here?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Without rehashing the entire debate, the stimilus package passed by Congress was not universally hailed as you suggest. The problem with the Obama stimilus packages was there was very little actually stimilus money involved.

I'm talking about here, on Dee Tee.