The Michael Gill/Penn National Riders Saga

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I have a little experience in what it costs to have thoroughbreds in training. He cant make money. It is impossible even for a gyp operation. Whether he is using the loss for some kind of tax relief is another question.

The interesting thing is that he runs them under his specific name, and not under an LLC.

IRS will be able to have a field day just on that very stance if they ever bust out the hobby vs business on him..

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I have a little experience in what it costs to have thoroughbreds in training. He cant make money. It is impossible even for a gyp operation. Whether he is using the loss for some kind of tax relief is another question.

He is paying less then 50 a day and I am sure his vetting is highly discounted.. He has more then a few that get claimed away at prices above his purchase price. AND he wins a lot

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Scav

The interesting thing is that he runs them under his specific name, and not under an LLC.

IRS will be able to have a field day just on that very stance if they ever bust out the hobby vs business on him..

That's addressed in today's piece...

http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/gi...hats-so-wrong/

He's been involved in a 5 year evaluation by IRS on the hobby/business equation:

Though he said he has lost tens of millions of dollars over the years, Gill claims he didn’t “put one penny of my money into the business last year. I can go to the IRS and say this is a business, it isn’t a hobby.” Gill said he is in a five-year audit with the Internal Revenue Service over whether or not his racing stable is a legitimate business.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Kasept

That's addressed in today's piece...

http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/gi...hats-so-wrong/

He's been involved in a 5 year evaluation by IRS on the hobby/business equation:

Though he said he has lost tens of millions of dollars over the years, Gill claims he didn’t “put one penny of my money into the business last year. I can go to the IRS and say this is a business, it isn’t a hobby.” Gill said he is in a five-year audit with the Internal Revenue Service over whether or not his racing stable is a legitimate business.

That has to be quite fun, yikes.

[randallscott35]

He'll be in jail soon.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

He'll be in jail soon.

Let's start a Jail pool.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Is a figure 8 some sort of C.ck ring?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Danzig

it was a joke relax

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by freddymo

it was a joke relax

lol
well yeah i figured.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

He is paying less then 50 a day and I am sure his vetting is highly discounted.. He has more then a few that get claimed away at prices above his purchase price. AND he wins a lot

At $50 a day he is getting murdered.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Kasept

That's addressed in today's piece...

http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/gi...hats-so-wrong/

He's been involved in a 5 year evaluation by IRS on the hobby/business equation:

Though he said he has lost tens of millions of dollars over the years, Gill claims he didn’t “put one penny of my money into the business last year. I can go to the IRS and say this is a business, it isn’t a hobby.” Gill said he is in a five-year audit with the Internal Revenue Service over whether or not his racing stable is a legitimate business.

He loves to pay for things and people cash. Keeps the on the books expenses down, makes it easier to try to declare a profit and avoids all those pesky payroll taxes and workmans compensation audits.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

He loves to pay for things and people cash. Keeps the on the books expenses down, makes it easier to try to declare a profit and avoids all those pesky payroll taxes and workmans compensation audits.

From that article:
- He attributes much of the stable’s success to the fact he gives all of his horses medication for Equine Protozoal Myeloencephalitis, or EPM, a neurological disease. “A good 80% of horses have EPM,” he said. He also has throat surgeries, or myectomies, performed on many of the horses he claims because “with EPM, one side of the flap (in the epiglottis) is gone, and the other half doubles in size. Then it closes up. The surgery helps them breathe.”

Chuck, question - what treatment would he be giving for EPM? I thought they were still working on finding good treatment and the existing treatments came with lengthy treatment times, time off for the horse and possible side-effects like anemia? (besides Gill's stats being wrong)

[Rudeboyelvis]

Don't they run 4k open claimers for 18K at Penn Nat? Hard to believe you can't make a living even if you hit 20%...

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

From that article:
- He attributes much of the stable’s success to the fact he gives all of his horses medication for Equine Protozoal Myeloencephalitis, or EPM, a neurological disease. “A good 80% of horses have EPM,” he said. He also has throat surgeries, or myectomies, performed on many of the horses he claims because “with EPM, one side of the flap (in the epiglottis) is gone, and the other half doubles in size. Then it closes up. The surgery helps them breathe.”

Chuck, question - what treatment would he be giving for EPM? I thought they were still working on finding good treatment and the existing treatments came with lengthy treatment times, time off for the horse and possible side-effects like anemia?

Figure 8 bridle

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Figure 8 bridle

You mean, like the type Freddy uses?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

From that article:
- He attributes much of the stable’s success to the fact he gives all of his horses medication for Equine Protozoal Myeloencephalitis, or EPM, a neurological disease. “A good 80% of horses have EPM,” he said. He also has throat surgeries, or myectomies, performed on many of the horses he claims because “with EPM, one side of the flap (in the epiglottis) is gone, and the other half doubles in size. Then it closes up. The surgery helps them breathe.”

Chuck, question - what treatment would he be giving for EPM? I thought they were still working on finding good treatment and the existing treatments came with lengthy treatment times, time off for the horse and possible side-effects like anemia? (besides Gill's stats being wrong)

He used to give oral meds that are pretty commonly used. I suppose he still does the same. Not cheap either even if you are buying it in vats. His statement is impossible to verify by the way. 80% of horses may have been exposed to EPM but that doesnt mean that giving them medications will help them in any manner.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Don't they run 4k open claimers for 18K at Penn Nat? Hard to believe you can't make a living even if you hit 20%...

at $50 per day and 120 horses that is over $2.1 million for those horses alone. And that is before vets, farm salaries, shipping, workmans comp, purchase prices, maintenance and other expenses at the farm, etc. An operation done semi-right of that size with a farm would cost $4-5 million. He ran 2247 horses last year so you can pretty much double all the figures since with a 120 horse operation it would mean his horses averaged close to 19 starts each. He states in the Paulick article today he had 450 horses last year at one time. The day he had 450 horses at say $50 a day it was costing him $22000 a day without the other expenses factored in. That is around 8 million in expenses without regard to one cent of purchase price.

[Thoroughbred Fan]

He may worm them, he may give them meds for EPM, he may change their diet, he may change their shoes. It is all legit, but also subterfuge for whatever is really going on.

He still wins a a great rate which is not always explained by those things. He places them aggressively and may be an alchemist. What ever he does...he will always be suspected of wrong.

No sympathy for him, but it must be tough to be him.

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by Thoroughbred Fan

He may worm them, he may give them meds for EPM, he may change their diet, he may change their shoes. It is all legit, but also subterfuge for whatever is really going on.

He still wins a a great rate which is not always explained by those things. He places them aggressively and may be an alchemist. What ever he does...he will always be suspected of wrong.

No sympathy for him, but it must be tough to be him.

Why man??...It must be tough to be one of his horses. You reap what you sew...end of story. He is two centuries beyond trafficking in humans, and if he really wanted, I'm sure there are a few people in the former Czech Republic who could teach him what maiden claimers are all about.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Thoroughbred Fan

What ever he does...he will always be suspected of wrong.

It's hard to suspect him of doing anything right with his Philly Park division ... he's winning at 6% with over 100 starters over the last few months ... and wasn't exactly making much of an impression before that.