Nomar retires

[GPK]

http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/mlb...ory?id=4981701

[randallscott35]

What could have been.

[The Bid]

Roids

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by The Bid

Roids

Yep. HGH as well.

[satan's twin]

About 4 1/2 years after it should have happened.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

I bet he's gunna spend even more time washing those hands. Just can't get them clean like he wants 'em.

[The Bid]

He's one of the all time off roids stiffs of the steroid era. He was a zero without them.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by The Bid

He's one of the all time off roids stiffs of the steroid era. He was a zero without them.

Gary Matthews Jr.

Pudge

Tejada

[3kings]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Gary Matthews Jr.

Pudge

Tejada

the Giles brothers

[Bigsmc]

Brady Anderson

[keithting]

Rafael Palmeiro.....

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Gary Matthews Jr.

Pudge

Tejada

While he has been tied to steroids, Pudge was a 36 year old catcher when he started to drop off. While steroids may have help him keep his numbers up a little longer there arent many 36 year old catchers in MLB history that werent a shell of themselves by then. Guys like gary Carter and Johnny Bench. Even a guy like Javy Lopez who probably never stopped taking them tailed off badly after 35.

And while Tejada isnt the MVP guy he was when he was 27 he had a pretty good year last year as a 35 year old SS, especially in light of the fact that he absolutely refuses to take a walk. Amazingly enough in 673 plate appearances last season he walked 19 times (2 intentionally) which is roughly 3 times a month for some who plays everyday (158 games)

I have no idea what any of this means other than I thought it was marginally interesting.

[randallscott35]

Pudge came to spring training after the Bonds ordeal and was 25 pounds lighter. His power numbers dropped off a cliff. Everyone from that Rangers team was on them down to the bat boy

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Bigsmc

Brady Anderson

I believe he may have had a little more help than simply steroids in 1996. He hit like he signed a one year contract with Lucifer.

His wife is a 14 on a scale of 1-10 though

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Pudge came to spring training after the Bonds ordeal and was 25 pounds lighter. His power numbers dropped off a cliff. Everyone from that Rangers team was on them down to the bat boy

This is true but right during the time when he was presumably on them he had three straight years where he couldnt stay healthy averaging only 100 games from 2000-2003. I'm not saying he wasnt using, he almost assuredly was. But his numbers dropped at the same rate and age that historically has been when catchers really start to lose it. Outside of Fisk and Posada (who started his career much later than most top catchers) there really hasnt been any Catcher that didnt fade pretty quick.

[The Bid]

Pudge I do not think the steroids helped that much. He really never put up any huge offensive numbers, he was just a really sound defensive catcher and a leader. He had a real solid career average but he was always a good hitter. It was very evident in Pudge appearence that he took only testosterone. If any of these guys knew anything they would have been running a trenbolone and a masteron and kept their lazy gains instead of waterballoning up, and then shrinking up like raisins.

Tejada had a great year without roids and hes 200 years old. Rafie its hard to say because he was on the tail end of his career when he "didn't use steorids"

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by The Bid

Pudge I do not think the steroids helped that much. He really never put up any huge offensive numbers, he was just a really sound defensive catcher and a leader. He had a real solid career average but he was always a good hitter. It was very evident in Pudge appearence that he took only testosterone. If any of these guys knew anything they would have been running a trenbolone and a masteron and kept their lazy gains instead of waterballoning up, and then shrinking up like raisins.

Tejada had a great year without roids and hes 200 years old. Rafie its hard to say because he was on the tail end of his career when he "didn't use steorids"

The problem with a lot of these guys is that we never saw them much pre usage like we did with Bonds and Clemens. I did see Palmiero hit a monstrous HR when he played for Baltimore in Spring Training in Ft Lauderdale. Pulled down the line and probably 100 feet over the wall when it cleared. Had to be 450+, easy. That in itself means nothing but it was almost superhuman. The pitcher just kept looking out into right field like he couldnt believe it.

[The Bid]

Rafie is a tough one because he was always a very good player, not a great player, but very consistant his entire career. He got some monster numbers towards the end and we all know he used however, I would be curious to know when he started.

Guys like Mac and Bonds. those guys were using for a LOoooong time. It wasnt a year like Petite. Mac would have been very average with nothing, below average in fact. Clemens would be a first ballot hall of famer IMO regardless. He was an extreme talent. I believe Bonds was a very very good ballplayer, but when he left Pittsbrg weighing 185 he was just a really good player. Not the bonds he ended up being.

If Pete Rose isn't in the hall of fame, none of these guys should be.

Lots of guys who ended their careers being really good would be bench players without steroids.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by The Bid

Rafie is a tough one because he was always a very good player, not a great player, but very consistant his entire career. He got some monster numbers towards the end and we all know he used however, I would be curious to know when he started.

Guys like Mac and Bonds. those guys were using for a LOoooong time. It wasnt a year like Petite. Mac would have been very average with nothing, below average in fact. Clemens would be a first ballot hall of famer IMO regardless. He was an extreme talent. I believe Bonds was a very very good ballplayer, but when he left Pittsbrg weighing 185 he was just a really good player. Not the bonds he ended up being.

If Pete Rose isn't in the hall of fame, none of these guys should be.

Lots of guys who ended their careers being really good would be bench players without steroids.

I dont think Pettite's story was credible. People believed him because he "came clean" when others didnt but his story is rather implausable considering the supposed prevalence of use. Plus he basically did whatever Clemens told him to and followed Clemons workout schedule to a t. That being said it is impossible to really know who was better, who wasnt using, who was, etc. McGuire was a very good college player as was Bonds. Bonds was one of the very best players in the league before he became superhuman. There is no doubt that the use of steroids extended many guys careers at a high level far longer than should have been possible.

[The Bid]

Petite just seems like an honest guy to me. Not becuase of the came clean story, he just seems like a straight up kind of guy. Obviously Clemens was the catalyst there when he came to NY. I think Petite may have had a year of use and I don't even think most of these guys used the stuff correctly