Gotta Love the Euros

[King Glorious]

While there is a $600k, grade one for females on the grass at Belmont, the connections of two European fillies are running instead in the Hirsch, against the boys. Freedonia and Royal Highness, both 4yo fillies with only grade two wins on their resumes and both with only five career starts, are skipping the Flower Bowl to run in the Hirsch because the connections like the longer distance better. The Flower Bowl is 10f and the Hirsch is 12f.

I wish more American racing people were courageous enough to take these kinds of chances.

[blackthroatedwind]

You seem to mistake stupidity for courage.

I wonder how brave you would be if you had a top horse. Seems to me you are very brave with other people's animals ( i.e. they should have run Lava Man in the Arlington Million instead of the P Classic ).

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

You seem to mistake stupidity for courage.

I wonder how brave you would be if you had a top horse. Seems to me you are very brave with other people's animals ( i.e. they should have run Lava Man in the Arlington Million instead of the P Classic ).

Isn't everyone more ambitious when it comes to other people's things than their own. I'd like to think I'd be more sporting and take crazy chances though. This is supposed to be a sport still and it's supposed to be fun. I would like to think that I'd have a lot of fun and wouldn't leave the game wondering "What if?" Look at Lava Man. He just won the Pacific Classic. After having won the Santa Anita Hcp and the Hollywood Gold Cup twice, he was already a clearly established best handicap horse in California. What did his Pacific Classic win prove that we didn't already know about him? What is it going to do for his legacy when it's all said and done? Did it make people think any higher of him or was it just "ho-hum, that's what he was SUPPOSED to do against those horses"? Now think about what a win or even a real good effort in the Arlington Million would have done for him. Had he won that race (and remember, this was before Bernardini's Travers), he would have put himself clearly in the leading position for horse of the year, he would have maybe even put himself into a position to be top grass horse, he would have shut up critics that say he has to prove himself outside of California, and he would have put his name in the history books as one of the top horses of the past 10-20 years. How many others out there have a SA Hcp, Hollywood Gold Cup, and Arlington Million win on the resume? On the flip side, say it didn't pan out and he flopped. They could always come back and run in the Goodwood and prep for the Classic, which they are doing anyway. I don't see how trying the Million would have had any negatives.

[blackthroatedwind]

He won $600K and was 4:5.

You're very silly.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

You seem to mistake stupidity for courage.

I wonder how brave you would be if you had a top horse. Seems to me you are very brave with other people's animals ( i.e. they should have run Lava Man in the Arlington Million instead of the P Classic ).

Come on now! Everyone knows King Glorious knows these animals way better than the men and woman who take care of them everyday.

[DiscreetCat=Monster]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

You seem to mistake stupidity for courage.

I wonder how brave you would be if you had a top horse. Seems to me you are very brave with other people's animals ( i.e. they should have run Lava Man in the Arlington Million instead of the P Classic ).

Too Much Hatin Not enough Congradulatin

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Come on now! Everyone knows King Glorious knows these animals way better than the men and woman who take care of them everyday.

This is a pretty silly and unnecessary post. Nobody in the world said anything about knowing the horses better. What is there to know better? Gee, a person has an idea too shoot for something historical with a horse that's obviously in top form right now and has shown an ability to run well on both surfaces and he's an idiot for even thinking it. No wonder this sport is going to hell. If Secretariat was running today, they probably would have never even tried him in those grass races. Ack Ack was a champion sprinter as well as handicap horse in 1971. John Henry, Perrault.......never would have done the things they did back then if they were running today because nobody has balls anymore. U find out what your horse specializes in and u keep him there. Forget trying new things.

Black, I didn't say anything bad came of running in the Pacific Classic. I asked u what would be the negative for trying the Arlington Million? Which would have done more for the horse's championship aspirations, his legacy, and his current reputation....a win at Arlington or Del Mar? Which would u, as a fan, have rather seen from him after the Pacific Classic? A run in the Hirsch, against The Tin Man, or another ho-hum effort in the Goodwood against the same stiffs he's been beating?

[cakes44]

Biancone is about the only US based trainer willing to put his good females up against the boys, and obviously he came from overseas. Her Majesty broker her maiden 1st out vs colts in a route no less, and looked awfully good doing it. I'm very interested in her odds Saturday. I like her chances.

[blackthroatedwind]

The problem with running in the Arlington Million, if you OWN the horse, is that he wouldn't have been able to run in the P Classic. What sane person chooses a million dollar race where he would be, at best, 5-1 over one where he is going to be even money?

To compare Secretariat running in the two final races he ran in is a bit ridiculous. First of all, he had already been syndicated for what was at the time an enormous amount of money. Second of all, the grass races he chose had similar, if not better, purses than the dirt alternatives ( actually the only race he skipped was the JCGC which was also two miles at that time ). He was also 1-2 and 1-5 in the two grass races....hardly comparable to what Lava Man's chances would have been in the Arlington Million.

Look, when I play Gallop Racer I follow your approach in race selection. I choose fun spots to see how my horse stacks up with tough competition. But, real life thoroughbred racing is not a video game, as there is a LOT of money at stake. I also don't think you would be wrong in every situation ( I always thought Azeri running the same boring campaign two years in a row, especially in light of all the other spots she could have run in for more money and prestige, was a bit boring and gutless). However, I think your overall view is haphazard at best and unrealistic. Overall the idea is to find the best spots for horses and your specific ideas of creativity fly in the face of sanity.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The problem with running in the Arlington Million, if you OWN the horse, is that he wouldn't have been able to run in the P Classic. What sane person chooses a million dollar race where he would be, at best, 5-1 over one where he is going to be even money?

To compare Secretariat running in the two final races he ran in is a bit ridiculous. First of all, he had already been syndicated for what was at the time an enormous amount of money. Second of all, the grass races he chose had similar, if not better, purses than the dirt alternatives ( actually the only race he skipped was the JCGC which was also two miles at that time ). He was also 1-2 and 1-5 in the two grass races....hardly comparable to what Lava Man's chances would have been in the Arlington Million.

Look, when I play Gallop Racer I follow your approach in race selection. I choose fun spots to see how my horse stacks up with tough competition. But, real life thoroughbred racing is not a video game, as there is a LOT of money at stake. I also don't think you would be wrong in every situation ( I always thought Azeri running the same boring campaign two years in a row, especially in light of all the other spots she could have run in for more money and prestige, was a bit boring and gutless). However, I think your overall view is haphazard at best and unrealistic. Overall the idea is to find the best spots for horses and your specific ideas of creativity fly in the face of sanity.

How freaking great is Gallop Racer. What a game. I still play the 2001 version b/c that's the one they didn't mess up.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The problem with running in the Arlington Million, if you OWN the horse, is that he wouldn't have been able to run in the P Classic. What sane person chooses a million dollar race where he would be, at best, 5-1 over one where he is going to be even money?

To compare Secretariat running in the two final races he ran in is a bit ridiculous. First of all, he had already been syndicated for what was at the time an enormous amount of money. Second of all, the grass races he chose had similar, if not better, purses than the dirt alternatives ( actually the only race he skipped was the JCGC which was also two miles at that time ). He was also 1-2 and 1-5 in the two grass races....hardly comparable to what Lava Man's chances would have been in the Arlington Million.

Look, when I play Gallop Racer I follow your approach in race selection. I choose fun spots to see how my horse stacks up with tough competition. But, real life thoroughbred racing is not a video game, as there is a LOT of money at stake. I also don't think you would be wrong in every situation ( I always thought Azeri running the same boring campaign two years in a row, especially in light of all the other spots she could have run in for more money and prestige, was a bit boring and gutless). However, I think your overall view is haphazard at best and unrealistic. Overall the idea is to find the best spots for horses and your specific ideas of creativity fly in the face of sanity.

I'll start with saying that I don't think Lava Man would have been 5-1 in the Arlington race. He had just come off of back to back dominating wins on the grass at Hollywood. One was a track record performance and the other was over graded stakes winners King's Drama, TH Approval (the same one that just ran Million winner The Tin Man to a tight finish), and Sweet Return. The 106 and 107 figures he earned placed him near the top of the Beyer leaderboard thru that point in the year. In fact, there had only been one race at 10f on grass all year that had a higher figure and that figure was a 108. He clearly was on par with what the best grass runners in the country had been doing. I think 5-2 or maybe 3-1 would have been his price in the race.

Now, after the Pacific Classic, according to the trainer, they seriously flirted with the idea of going in the Hirsch as his next start. That race is $250k as compared to the $500k Goodwood. I think he would have even been favored in the Hirsch. But they decided on going with the Goodwood. I have nothing to base this on other than gut feeling but I bet they just didn't want to face The Tin Man and maybe mess up his perfect record for the year. Is it wrong of them to make the choice they made AND run for more money? No. Is it challenging? No. Is it fun for the fans? No. Why though would they seriously consider the lower pursed Hirsch? I think they put their feet in the water, saw the pool was a little deep, and pulled out. I think the same thing happened with the Million. They chose the safe route. As u call it, the sane one. But again, I say that sometimes, u can't let money dictate your decisions. U have a horse that might be a once in a lifetime for them. They have a chance to really do something special with him. And they chose the safe route. There is an old saying.......u have to DARE to be great. Greatness is not just thrown on u. U have to go out and take it. That's what I wanted to see from Lava Man. Instead, we get fed a steady diet of crap like we are going to see in the Goodwood. The same crap we saw in the Pacific Classic, the Hollywood Gold Cup, and the SA Hcp. Let's say he had skipped the Million but did go in the Hirsch and beats The Tin Man. Say he comes back and wins the BC Classic and then finishes off the year winning the Hollywood Turf Cup. I don't think this is an unrealistic scenario. He'd be the older male champion, the turf champion, and the HOY. It shouldn't always be about the money. Especially when they've won over $3.5 million already. Go for history. Hell, he wouldn't have even had to win the Arlington race in order to boost his reputation. A solid showing would have done more for him than winning the Pacific Classic did. The only thing he gained by winning at Del Mar was money. No more respect. Nothing but money.