Zenyatta

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I think what might get lost here is how horrid this field was in relation to past editions of this race.

Whoever was riding First Dude caused a huge pace collapse .. it basically was supposed to be a stone cold Blame 1st and Fly Down 2nd type of race at that point. Credit John Shireffs - he has an amazing record when he points for an objective. Zenyatta ran much better than I thought she would.

The final time was a joke. Uncle Mo is going to get a Beyer figure only 3 full points slower than Blame will for winning a wildly sub-par edition of the Classic.

I remember everyone make a huge deal about about how Arazi was the star of the 1991 Breeders Cup ... keep in mind he needed 1:46.40 in his blowout win over Bertrando.. Uncle Mo needed 1:42.60 today ... his final time was 3.80 full seconds (or 22 lengths) faster than Arazi's in his destruction Bertrando.

Blame's final time of 2:02.28 - was just 0.52 seconds faster than Black Tie Affair's 2:02.80 Breeders Cup Classic win at Churchill also in 1991.

It's a pretty sad statement to the older males when you have a horse like Blame - who's run Beyers in the 101-to-103 range in five of his last six career starts .. and even so I thought enough of him to make him my 2nd pick in this race in the paper today.

There was no slouch like Volponi or Mine That Bird out there today to deep six this field and make a mockery of them ... but this group was asking for it. Japan sent over the wrong horse. A speedy miler off of a bad prep .. had they sent over some late running dirt closer in halfway decent form - they probably win this.

I think the time of the race is very misleading because every day at Churchill the track slows down over the course of the day. I don't know if it was like that in past years but I've noticed that consistently this year.

[Theatrical]

Originally Posted by Danzig

the funny thing is, her ardent and airheaded fans who know nothing about racing will be incredibly disappointed, while anyone who knows anything about racing will say that was her best effort ever. yes, she lost. but she showed more today against the best field she's ever faced than against those soon forgotten cupcakes in cali.

it also shows glaringly just how much her chickenhearted connections have cost her. she should have been racing like today all year, instead of racing in paid glorified workouts.

It is so enlightening to be put in a blanket assessment of Z's fans as airheaded. Am I ardent? You bet your ass I am. She may have lost by a head, but look who finished behind her.

Am I disappointed? Sure am, but Blame was very game. My girl made up a huge amount of distance to just miss. I could not be more proud of her.

She is a champion, despite the garbage that has been written. On another forum, where she has been sliced and diced unmercifully, those guys have shown a level of respect for her performance today. And, they didn't refer to Z's fans as some sort of circus show. Some of them got what made her fans so passionate about her.

She will probably be retired and I am glad. Posts like yours, after a race of this magnitude, just reinforce this mare could never do enough to suit.

It's time for another horse to take over the mantle of not being able to satisfy the armchair trainers.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I think the time of the race is very misleading because every day at Churchill the track slows down over the course of the day. I don't know if it was like that in past years but I've noticed that consistently this year.

The track was consistant ... just as Blame is amazingly consistant when it comes to running Beyers in the 101-to-103 range and 3rd place finisher Fly Down is amazingly consistant at running Beyers in the 93-to-98 range.

5 of Blame's last 6 Beyers were in that range - and 4 of 5 Fly Down's last five starts were.

Obviously Uncle Mo would have got soundly beaten in the Classic because he's a speed horse and would have been forced to deal with the other four horses battling it out who all got beat by a mile... but this race was as sub par as it gets.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

The track was consistant ... just as Blame is amazingly consistant when it comes to running Beyers in the 101-to-103 range and 3rd place finisher Fly Down is amazingly consistant at running Beyers in the 93-to-98 range.

5 of Blame's last 6 Beyers were in that range - and 4 of 5 Fly Down's last five starts were.

Obviously Uncle Mo would have got soundly beaten in the Classic because he's a speed horse and would have been forced to deal with the other four horses battling it out who all got beat by a mile... but this race was as sub par as it gets.

My point is that I think if the race went earlier in the day, they run 2:01 1/5 or so rather than 2:02 1/5.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

The track was consistant ... just as Blame is amazingly consistant when it comes to running Beyers in the 101-to-103 range and 3rd place finisher Fly Down is amazingly consistant at running Beyers in the 93-to-98 range.

5 of Blame's last 6 Beyers were in that range - and 4 of 5 Fly Down's last five starts were.

Obviously Uncle Mo would have got soundly beaten in the Classic because he's a speed horse and would have been forced to deal with the other four horses battling it out who all got beat by a mile... but this race was as sub par as it gets.

You could argue Lookin at Lucky consistently runs Beyers in the 102-105 range and Fly Down ran a 105 on his best day. Blame ran a 111 Beyer two races back. So you could certainly make the argument that Blame and Zenyatta ran Beyers in the 110 range today.

By the way, there wasn't exactly a suicide pace in this race. They went the half in :47. It was a solid pace but it wasn't suicidal by any means.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

You could argue Lookin at Lucky consistently runs Beyers in the 102-105 range and Fly Down ran a 105 on his best day. Blame ran a 111 Beyer two races back. So you could certainly make the argument that Blame and Zenyatta ran Beyers in the 110 range today.

By the way, there wasn't exactly a suicide pace in this race. They went the half in :47. It was a solid pace but it wasn't suicidal by any means.

For 10 furlongs, that's very fast, and the 1-2-3-4 runners finished 8-12-10-11. It was a meltdown.

[tiggerv]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

You could argue Lookin at Lucky consistently runs Beyers in the 102-105 range and Fly Down ran a 105 on his best day. Blame ran a 111 Beyer two races back. So you could certainly make the argument that Blame and Zenyatta ran Beyers in the 110 range today.

By the way, there wasn't exactly a suicide pace in this race. They went the half in :47. It was a solid pace but it wasn't suicidal by any means.

1:11.01 is a fast pace. The race completely collapsed. The top three were 7th, 12th and 10th at the 6F mark.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

My point is that I think if the race went earlier in the day, they run 2:01 1/5 or so rather than 2:02 1/5.

My point is that you have no idea what you're talking about if you think that.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

You could argue Lookin at Lucky consistently runs Beyers in the 102-105 range and Fly Down ran a 105 on his best day. Blame ran a 111 Beyer two races back. So you could certainly make the argument that Blame and Zenyatta ran Beyers in the 110 range today.

That would give Uncle Mo a 107...

I'd have Blame/Zenyatta 108 - Uncle Mo 105

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Theatrical

It is so enlightening to be put in a blanket assessment of Z's fans as airheaded. Am I ardent? You bet your ass I am. She may have lost by a head, but look who finished behind her.

Am I disappointed? Sure am, but Blame was very game. My girl made up a huge amount of distance to just miss. I could not be more proud of her.

She is a champion, despite the garbage that has been written. On another forum, where she has been sliced and diced unmercifully, those guys have shown a level of respect for her performance today. And, they didn't refer to Z's fans as some sort of circus show. Some of them got what made her fans so passionate about her.

She will probably be retired and I am glad. Posts like yours, after a race of this magnitude, just reinforce this mare could never do enough to suit.

It's time for another horse to take over the mantle of not being able to satisfy the armchair trainers.

another poster with comprehension issues. or maybe i wrote it poorly to begin with. i was addressing the zenyatta fans who don't understand racing, not zenyatta fans who do. i said anyone who understands racing will know it was her best ever performance, and far from disappointing. glad you read the whole thing.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

For 10 furlongs, that's very fast, and the 1-2-3-4 runners finished 8-12-10-11. It was a meltdown.

Yeah - look where Haynesfield finished in relation to Blame and Fly Down last time out ....

Look where Haynesfield finished in relation to them today.

Nothing changed - the distance was 10fs both races. The pace pressure was a lot more in here.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

You could argue Lookin at Lucky consistently runs Beyers in the 102-105 range and Fly Down ran a 105 on his best day. Blame ran a 111 Beyer two races back. So you could certainly make the argument that Blame and Zenyatta ran Beyers in the 110 range today.

By the way, there wasn't exactly a suicide pace in this race. They went the half in :47. It was a solid pace but it wasn't suicidal by any means.

The pace was SUICIDAL...It was totally brutal.

[slotdirt]

Definitely looked like a meltdown.

That being said, I have a lot more respect for Zenyatta the racehorse today than I did yesterday.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by fpsoxfan

She ran an impressive race. Nothing to be ashamed of. I'm not a Zentard but there is a lot to love about this horse.

Well said.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

For 10 furlongs, that's very fast, and the 1-2-3-4 runners finished 8-12-10-11. It was a meltdown.

It was a solid pace. But you can't blame the poor performance of most of those horses on the pace. First Dude was on the lead. He was going faster than anyone yet he beat Quality Road by 18 lengths. And he beat Haynesfield by 12 lengths.

I personally think :47 is too fast for First Dude. I think he is a better horse from off the pace. He ended up getting beat today by 10 lengths. If he drops 5 lengths back like he probably should have, I'm sure he would have finished a few lengths closer.

What would par be for pace in this race? As I said, I think the track was quite a bit slower for the Classic because the track has been slowing down later in the day at Churchill this year. So :47 is a very solid pace. But in a race like this with the best horses in the country, I would expect a solid pace.

[MaTH716]

I'll admit at the end that I was a little disapointed that she didn't get up, even though it would have cost me money. It would have been so much easier if she didn't lift a hoof, which it looked like very early. But she came from the absolute clouds and ran a tremendous race.
It does amaze me that in the 19 prior races, Mike Smith came up the rail once to win and in what might have been her most important race he thought about doing it again (and mind you it was dead). She was just as good as Blame today, but I really believe that Smith just gave her too much to do against a very good horse who got a pretty good trip himself. She really deserved to win that race today.

[GPK]

Anyone know if the Tarheels won today?

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

That would give Uncle Mo a 107...

I'd have Blame/Zenyatta 108 - Uncle Mo 105

The track at Churchill slows down by around a second every day over the course of the day. If the Classic goes at the same time as the Juvenille (the Juvenille was not running at the beginning of the day but more in the middle of the day), I think the race goes in the 2:01 2/5- 2:01 4/5 range.

I know that you disagree with that, but making that assumption what would that do to the Beyers? Uncle Mo obviously ran huge today. He ran a 102 when he broke his maiden. I'd probably give him a 105 or so and I'd probably give Blame a 111 or so.

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

The track at Churchill slows down by around a second every day over the course of the day. If the Classic goes at the same time as the Juvenille (the Juvenille was not running at the beginning of the day but more in the middle of the day), I think the race goes in the 2:01 2/5- 2:01 4/5 range.

I know that you disagree with that, but making that assumption what would that do to the Beyers? Uncle Mo obviously ran huge today. He ran a 102 when he broke his maiden. I'd probably give him a 105 or so and I'd probably give Blame a 111 or so.

That's not really how it works.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Yeah - look where Haynesfield finished in relation to Blame and Fly Down last time out ....

Look where Haynesfield finished in relation to them today.

Nothing changed - the distance was 10fs both races. The pace pressure was a lot more in here.

How did First Dude hold on so realtively well? He crushed Haynesfield and QR by 12 lengths and 18 lengths respectively and he was going faster than either one of them.