Now this I really am surprised by; Empire Maker to Japan

[Indian Charlie]

Seeing as they don't have anymore Toussaud offspring coming down the pipe...

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...nese-interests

[blackthroatedwind]

I guess when Pioneer of the Nile is your best offspring it's time to take the money and run.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I guess when Pioneer of the Nile is your best offspring it's time to take the money and run.

Those multiple Grade 1 winners all suck.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I guess when Pioneer of the Nile is your best offspring it's time to take the money and run.

Empire Maker has been ok. And POTN, if you were right all along about him being a turf horse, who knows what he could have done down the road.

[Seattleallstar]

Don't know why they shipped him off to Japan, I can only imagine alot of money was invovled and maybe to give Empire Maker a chance in Japan. He did stand at 50k a pop. He also had Battle Plan this year who looked to be a HOY candidate until he got hurt.

Keep an eye out on Evasion who is out of Inside Information

[Betsy]

EM was an ok/good sire, but nothing close to what he was expected...............that said, he was good enough not to be sent to Japan. Pretty shocking.

[JerseyJ]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Those multiple Grade 1 winners all suck.

You can't really begin to think that when a sire's best offspring is highlighted by Pioneerof the Nile, Mushka, Acoma, Country Star, Icon Project, Battle Plan, and Acting Happy, that constiutes a successful stud career can you?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by JerseyJ

You can't really begin to think that when a sire's best offspring is highlighted by Pioneerof the Nile, Mushka, Acoma, Country Star, Icon Project, Battle Plan, and Acting Happy, that constiutes a successful stud career can you?

I few things to consider about Empire Maker before you toss him under the bus as a failure. His first 3 books were jam packed with high end turf mares. I really dont think he saw the type of terriffic dirt stock that you would have thought.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by freddymo

I few things to consider about Empire Maker before you toss him under the bus as a failure. His first 3 books were jam packed with high end turf mares. I really dont think he saw the type of terriffic dirt stock that you would have thought.

You made this up, right?

Anyone casually glancing at Empire Maker's progeny will see that he saw more than his fair share of "dirt stock". Flanders, Aurora, Queenie Belle, I Ain't Bluffing, Top Rung, Dokki, Sleep Easy, Bella Chiarra, TV Countess, Rings A Chime, Adoration, Lotta Kim, Away, Fitted Crown, Tarlow, Inside Information, Latour, Spoken Fur, In The Gold, Apple Of Kent, You, Cappucino Bay, Listen Well, Serra Lake, Lazy Slusan, La Reina, Faras Team, Dreams Gallore, Versailles Treaty, Hot Novel, Flute, Sightseek, Keeper Hill, Critical Crew, Her She Kisses, Classy Mirage.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

You made this up, right?

Anyone casually glancing at Empire Maker's progeny will see that he saw more than his fair share of "dirt stock". Flanders, Aurora, Queenie Belle, I Ain't Bluffing, Top Rung, Dokki, Sleep Easy, Bella Chiarra, TV Countess, Rings A Chime, Adoration, Lotta Kim, Away, Fitted Crown, Tarlow, Inside Information, Latour, Spoken Fur, In The Gold, Apple Of Kent, You, Cappucino Bay, Listen Well, Serra Lake, Lazy Slusan, La Reina, Faras Team, Dreams Gallore, Versailles Treaty, Hot Novel, Flute, Sightseek, Keeper Hill, Critical Crew, Her She Kisses, Classy Mirage.

I guess Freddy needs further information:

Flanders- champion, dam of Gr2 win/Gr1 plcd Battle Plan
Aurora- from the blue-blood Courtly Dee family, stakes winner; dam of 3 Grade 1 winners
Queenie Belle- Gr2 winner; dam of BC Distaff winner Unrivaled Belle
I Ain't Bluffing- multi Gr 1 winner; dam of Gr2 win/Gr1 plcd Acting Happy
Top Rung- Gr2 win/Gr1 plcd; 1/2 to stallion Repriced; dam of Consistency
Dokki- 1/2 to Slew O Gold and Coastal; dam of DIRT horses Aptitude and Sleep Easy for JUDDMONTE
Sleep Easy- family of Slew O Gold, Coastal; Gr 1 winner on DIRT for JUDDMONTE
Bella Chiarra- Gr2 winner; out top producer Bannockburn
TV Countess- dam of champion Countess Diana
Rings A Chime- Gr1 winner
Adoration- multi Gr1 winner including BC Distaff
Lotta Kim- dam of champion Rachel Alexandra
Away- dam of Eight Belles
Fitted Crown- dam of multi Gr1 winner Excellent Meeting
Tarlow- Gr1 winner
Inside Information- champion; 1/2 to multi Gr1 winner Educated Risk; dam of champion Smuggler
Latour-Gr2 winner
Spoken Fur- multi Gr1 winner
In The Gold- Gr1 winner
Apple Of Kent- Gr2 winner on DIRT for JUDDMONTE
You- multi Gr1 winner; dam of You and I Forever
Cappucino Bay- dam of top stallion Medaglia D'Oro
Listen Well- dam of 3 Graded stakes horses
Serra Lake-Gr1 winner; 1/2 to Cappuchino; out of your favorite, Tara Roma
La Reina-Gr3 winner; out of champion Queena
Faras Team- dam of BC Classic winner Concerned
Dreams Gallore- Gr1 winner
Versailles Treaty- multi Gr1 winner; dam of Saarland
Hot Novel- Gr1 plcd; dam of $4 million earner Behrens
Flute- multi Gr1 winner on DIRT for JUDDMONTE
Sightseek- multi Gr1 winner on DIRT for JUDDMONTE; out of Viviana
Keeper Hill- multi Gr1 winner
Critical Crew- dam of multi Gr1 winner Critical Eye and Personable Pete
Her She Kisses- family of Shawklit
Classy Mirage- Gr1 winner; dam of Gr1 winner Dublin

With the exception of Listen Well who, in addition to siring dirt Gr1 winner Listening, also produced the good CA turf mares Beautiful Noise and Solar Echo, all those horses listed and their immediate families achieved their accolades on dirt.

Oh, except Sightseek is a 1/2 to turf Gr1 winner Tates Creek, and Repriced was a turf horse.

Is that enough dirt for you?

By the way, it's quite telling that you think that Versailles Treaty was the most important broodmare from that entire list.

[Clip-Clop]

Nice horse, wish him luck.

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by JerseyJ

You can't really begin to think that when a sire's best offspring is highlighted by Pioneerof the Nile, Mushka, Acoma, Country Star, Icon Project, Battle Plan, and Acting Happy, that constiutes a successful stud career can you?

These are from his first 3 crops to race up to 3 years of age. If he's not getting something like 150 foals a year, this is a decent performance, not spectacular, not superduper, but decent. He's gotten G1 winners, classic-type runners, high level performers. By now they have sorted out what kinds of mares work best with him and better is likely on the way. It's not like he's had nothing more than a G3 winner or two, like some classic winners one could name (Forward Pass, Bee Bee Bee, Commendable, Gato del Sol, et. al.).