12/26 (SA): Malibu, La Brea (G1's); Beaufort (G2); CA Champion (R)

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

It's going to be interesting to see how Sadler's horses do on dirt right off the bat. He had little success shipping to tracks with dirt in stakes races over the last few years (1-14 in graded stakes, 1-13 in non-graded stakes) but of course, now they're in his backyard.

I'm going to bet against Twirling Candy. He became the ultimate California hype horse and is going to continue to be overbet because of it. Two romping wins against horrible turf horses doesn't make him a Grade I dirt horse, but we'll see.

Sidney's Candy is going to have to be awfully short to lose the Sir Beaufort. Hopefully after he wins people can start talking about how he reminds them of Lure again.

Sadler horse's seem to be fine of dirt...........

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by Riot

Excuse me? Bull. You're the one being rude. I have no agenda here, but you sure have one apparently.

Yes, I like synthetics, but I'm excited SA went back to dirt. I'll be happy to take back the "concrete" remark as an overstatement, but yeah, I absolutely do think the track was playing fast and to speed today, especially after the 4th, and if you think my opinion is crap, feel free to bet against it. We'll have to see if they slow it down in the next few days after it's now dried out. You know, by maybe harrowing it a little deeper.

In what races specifically do you think speed was carried by the track?

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Riot

Excuse me? Bull. You're the one being rude. I have no agenda here, but you sure have one apparently.

Yes, I like synthetics, but I'm excited SA went back to dirt. I'll be happy to take back the "concrete" remark as an overstatement, but yeah, I absolutely do think the track was playing fast and to speed today, especially after the 4th, and if you think my opinion is crap, feel free to bet against it.

I'm not being rude. I'm being succinct. Here's the CHARTS. The surface is fast. Every trainer there has said as much for three weeks. That doesn't make it concrete. And the results make it obvious that while fast, it didn't favor speed.

[my miss storm cat]

Originally Posted by GPK

*popcorn eating emoticon*

Can you pass that over please?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

What a day by Sadler!

Rollo has left the building.....Again..what a buffoon

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Kasept

I'm not being rude. I'm being succinct. Here's the CHARTS. The surface is fast. Every trainer there has said as much for three weeks. That doesn't make it concrete. And the results make it obvious that while fast, it didn't favor speed.

actually I think whacky jerry brown gets a thumbs up today..After years of telling us that the surfaces in the 70's were shallow today he might get some redemption..

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Riot

Excuse me? Bull. You're the one being rude. I have no agenda here, but you sure have one apparently.

Yes, I like synthetics, but I'm excited SA went back to dirt. I'll be happy to take back the "concrete" remark as an overstatement, but yeah, I absolutely do think the track was playing fast and to speed today, especially after the 4th, and if you think my opinion is crap, feel free to bet against it. We'll have to see if they slow it down in the next few days after it's now dried out. You know, by maybe harrowing it a little deeper.

Do you think fast and speed favoring are one in the same?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

In what races specifically do you think speed was carried by the track?

I'll have to go back and watch the replays, but I thought The Factor (wow, exciting and speedy) was unexpectedly untireable" in the final 16th, I thought Arresting Officer, Smiling Tiger both lasted longer than expected, and Twirling Candy changed leads in the final strides to the wire yet didn't lose position (and broke the Bid's record?). And the final race (only watched it superficially) - didn't they go around from the backstretch home?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Do you think fast and speed favoring are one in the same?

No.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Kasept

I'm not being rude. I'm being succinct. Here's the CHARTS. The surface is fast. Every trainer there has said as much for three weeks. That doesn't make it concrete. And the results make it obvious that while fast, it didn't favor speed.

Then you ought to be darn happy I bet on horses, so you can take my money.

[RockHardTen1985]

What a giant effort out of Twirling Candy. Im not sure Sidney and Twirling wont stretch out either. Its different going 9f or 10f on dirt then it was on the old ****. Those 2 are STRONG.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by Riot

I'll have to go back and watch the replays, but I thought The Factor (wow, exciting and speedy) was unexpectedly untireable" in the final 16th, I thought Arresting Officer, Smiling Tiger both lasted longer than expected, and Twirling Candy changed leads in the final strides to the wire yet didn't lose position (and broke the Bid's record?). And the final race (only watched it superficially) - didn't they go around from the backstretch home?

Longer than you expected? That doesn't make a track speed favoring. When I think of a track as speed favoring, I think of it being very difficult for horses to make up ground on the horses in front. I didn't see that at all today.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Longer than you expected? That doesn't make a track speed favoring. When I think of a track as speed favoring, I think of it being very difficult for horses to make up ground on the horses in front. I didn't see that at all today.

Then, you, too, are free to bet against my terribly uneducated opinion. Or semantics. My opinion is the firmer the track, the faster the track, the less tiring the track, the more effortlessly the fastest horses hold their speed (while tiring) while closers have a more difficult time gaining round on them (all exhausted horses of dissimilar running style are not equal in the final two furlongs on a very firm track)

And if you find out what my "agenda" is, let me know

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by Riot

Then, you, too, are free to bet against my terribly uneducated opinion. Or semantics. My opinion is the firmer the track, the faster the track, the less tiring the track, the more effortlessly the fastest horses hold their speed (while tiring) while closers have a more difficult time gaining round on them (all exhausted horses of dissimilar running style are not equal in the final two furlongs on a very firm track)

And if you find out what my "agenda" is, let me know

It's not semantics. The results of today do not represent a speed favoring track. A fast track does not necessarily mean a speed favoring track. You seem to be confusing the two.

I think you should go back and watch the races, especially the ones where you think speed was carried.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

It's not semantics. The results of today do not represent a speed favoring track. A fast track does not necessarily mean a speed favoring track. You seem to be confusing the two.

I think you should go back and watch the races, especially the ones where you think speed was carried.

Do you think the track played equally fairly to all running styles today?

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by Riot

Do you think the track played equally fairly to all running styles today?

I have only seen each race twice, but at this point yes. A horse like Thirtyfirststreet couldn't win on a speed favoring track. Horses that were 8th and 9th early in the La Brea ran 2-3 in the race.

[Riot]

Then we disagree on how the track was playing.

We agree in that I also mentioned Thirtyfirststreet as a closer (who did close) but I feel the track changed very quickly into the stakes. Was it like Keeneland dirt? Heck no. We'll see what the figure guys do with it.

I did think the paths seemed to play very fairly inside to out, and it is amazing what great condition the track was in, considering all the rain they've dealt with.

[Dahoss]

I'm just not sure how a track could be labeled speed favoring when closers win.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

I'm just not sure how a track could be labeled speed favoring when closers win.

Well, I "have no opinion", "don't know what I'm talking about", "don't know anything about race tracks", and "have an agenda".

So if I were you, I would just smile and take my money.

[blackthroatedwind]

If you actually have a defendable position there is no reason to resort to the passive aggressive " poor me " position that is so prevelent on the internet when people get backed into a corner after trying to establish what is ultimately an indefensible opinion.

Or, how about " maybe I was wrong. "