Does a race horse have rivals???

[IrishofNDMan]

While sitting in class today, I started to day dream and think about horse racing. I started to think about recent races that I watched, and just wondered to myself, "what drives these animals to want to run, and to want to run faster than the other?" What makes them want to win a race, are they truly competitors. Then I started to think, do some horses actually have rivals, and do they know when they are going up against them in a race? Might sound like a stupid question, but your thoughts please.

[ELA]

Ask Bob Fox -- who just joined this board today -- about Alydar and Affirmed. In later years, after Affirmed didn't become the superstar in the breeding shed, he ended up at Calumet Farm -- the home, of course, of Alydar.

I'll let Bob tell the story, but to answer your question; in certain cases -- yes!

Eric

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by IrishofNDMan

While sitting in class today, I started to day dream and think about horse racing. I started to think about recent races that I watched, and just wondered to myself, "what drives these animals to want to run, and to want to run faster than the other?" What makes them want to win a race, are they truly competitors. Then I started to think, do some horses actually have rivals, and do they know when they are going up against them in a race? Might sound like a stupid question, but your thoughts please.

Oh believe me, some horses are competitiors through and through, just like people. They desire to go faster than all of the other horses. Even the colts and fillies that play in the pastures compete and race against each other. It is a driving desire, an instinct that goes back to ancestral times in which horses always wanted to be faster than the others because they were animals of prey and the last one (running in the back of the herd) was usually the one that got eaten.

Also, I believe that horses who consistently run against the same horses know who their rivals are because each horse has a different smell, and a horse's sense of smell is very keen. Although, it didn't matter with a horse such as Tiznow because he knew that all of the other horses were his rivals, and he would gut it out to the wire. My favorite race call of all time, "And Tiznow wins it for America!"

[Sightseek]

I always thought the best in Funny Cide was brought out by Peace Rules.

[IrishofNDMan]

I loved watching Barbaro and Sharp Humor battle it out in the Florida Derby til the wire. I am big on Sharp Humor, can't wait to see him run again!

[King Glorious]

I'm not a believer that they know they are running against a certain rival and try harder or less based on that fact. That's why I'm not a big proponent of running horses in lesser races in order to face weaker competition. I think they are natural competitors that will usually do as much as the rider allows them to do in a race. I get frustrated when I see people say a horse should skip race A and go in race B because race B will be an easier race. Like there is really that much difference in a horse having to run a 1:35 mile or a 1:37 mile. To go 1:35 means u go an average speed of 37.9 miles per hour. To go 1:37 means u go 37.1 mph. U have to run hard either way.

[ELA]

Good point. I think the "easier" term is more used with regard to "class" or competition.

Eric

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I'm not a believer that they know they are running against a certain rival and try harder or less based on that fact.

You are probably right about this......but I have to make one sentimental exception to this logical rule.
1989 - Sunday Silence and Easy Goer. Watch the '89 Preakness again. After that race.......I think those two horses knew each other pretty well, and were competing against EACH OTHER the next two times they met.
Now that may not be true in fact. But I was 12 years old at that time and those two (particularly my all-time favorite Sunday Silence) brought me into being a fan of the sport. I like to believe they were truly battling each other in those 4 spectacular races they gave us that year.
__________________

[King Glorious]

If it were two horses that ran around the track together, on each other's flanks then I would think what u are saying might have more credence. Well, first I want to say that I don't know if they have rivals or not for sure. I only gave my uninformed opinion. Anyway, going back to EG and SS...when they raced each other the next two times, they hardly spent any time near each other. EG blew by SS in a flash in the Belmont and SS spent the majority, if not all of the Classic in front of him so I'm not sure that EG even knew he was there.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Dixie Porter

"Horses have rivalries"

There have been some classically stupid things posted on this board since it's inception but this ONE wins the Gold Medal.

If you want to define "rivalry" as a situation where trainers run one horse against another several times, for whatever reason, you won't get an argument from me.

One horse recognizing another while breezing or racing, I give up..............

This board might be better if some of these idiotic posts were deleted, INSTEAD of banning some of the posters who have a clue to what you people are all yakking about.

Actually, Dixie, horses DO recognize one another. You can take that one to the bank...

Whether or not they actually race harder against a horse they recognize, I don't know, but they DO recognize each other.

Originally Posted by ELA

Ask Bob Fox -- who just joined this board today -- about Alydar and Affirmed. In later years, after Affirmed didn't become the superstar in the breeding shed, he ended up at Calumet Farm -- the home, of course, of Alydar.

I'll let Bob tell the story, but to answer your question; in certain cases -- yes!

Eric

Eric,
I assume you are referring to the legendary "races" they conducted with one another in the paddocks?
I've heard people at the farm would sit and watch them go and make side bets on them.
I wish someone had them on tape.

Seabiscuit supposedly pounded another stakes horse in his own barn so badly one morning that the other horse was enraged and upset every time he saw him.
They had to move him to the other end of the barn to fool him into thinking Biscuit wasn't there anymore.

[ELA]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Eric,
I assume you are referring to the legendary "races" they conducted with one another in the paddocks?
I've heard people at the farm would sit and watch them go and make side bets on them.
I wish someone had them on tape.

I heard about those as well. There are some great stories out there. The one I was talking about was the day Affirmed arrived at Calumet. I am sure the story has been dramatized over the years but it was an interesting story nevertheless.

I don't know anything about horses trying harder specifically because another specific horse was in the race. However, it would not be hard for me to believe that certain horses, like in the case of Alydar and Affirmed, might have "brought out the best" in each other. Maybe it's semantics.

Eric

Originally Posted by ELA

I heard about those as well. There are some great stories out there. The one I was talking about was the day Affirmed arrived at Calumet. I am sure the story has been dramatized over the years but it was an interesting story nevertheless.

I don't know anything about horses trying harder specifically because another specific horse was in the race. However, it would not be hard for me to believe that certain horses, like in the case of Alydar and Affirmed, might have "brought out the best" in each other. Maybe it's semantics.

Eric

Anyone who hasn't the absolute pleasure of listening to Bob Fox talk about racing over the years, and the tales he can tell, is truly missing out.
Known him since I was young(Bob says however that I was never young, that I was born very old) and he taught me residual value on stallions and mares and how to figure it out.
Ask him about the time we had a gelding sold for top dollars and the guy selling blew it up because he tried to bribe the employee of a shiekh/prince.
That tough beat still nearly moves me to tears.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Seabiscuit supposedly pounded another stakes horse in his own barn so badly one morning that the other horse was enraged and upset every time he saw him.
They had to move him to the other end of the barn to fool him into thinking Biscuit wasn't there anymore.

I used to go foxhunting and the horse I rode got along with every horse and you never had to be overly worried of him kicking other horses until one day this girl showed up with her new horse and mine went banannas. We tried seperating them by her being at the front and I in the back of the hunt, but when we got to a field and were galloping my horse took off with his ears pinned and bit her horse in the butt. Never did again with any other horse.

[IrishofNDMan]

Originally Posted by Dixie Porter

"Horses have rivalries"

There have been some classically stupid things posted on this board since it's inception but this ONE wins the Gold Medal.

If you want to define "rivalry" as a situation where trainers run one horse against another several times, for whatever reason, you won't get an argument from me.

One horse recognizing another while breezing or racing, I give up..............

This board might be better if some of these idiotic posts were deleted, INSTEAD of banning some of the posters who have a clue to what you people are all yakking about.

RELAX!!!! BREATHE!!!!!! everything will be alright, Captain Flipout! If you don't like a post, don't read it then.

[sumitas]

Why can't a horse recognize a foe ? If they race together several times I don't see why they can't recognize each other.

[ELA]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Anyone who hasn't the absolute pleasure of listening to Bob Fox talk about racing over the years, and the tales he can tell, is truly missing out.
Known him since I was young(Bob says however that I was never young, that I was born very old) and he taught me residual value on stallions and mares and how to figure it out.
Ask him about the time we had a gelding sold for top dollars and the guy selling blew it up because he tried to bribe the employee of a shiekh/prince.
That tough beat still nearly moves me to tears.

I know Bob Fox a long time. I am sure not as long as many because Bob is OLD and I am young. LOL. Anyway, Bob is a true historian of the game and the stories he tells are incredible. Perhaps the most incredible part is that many of the stories he tells -- when he is talking about the history -- he was part of it. The stories of Alydar and Affirmed and many others.

I do not know the story about the gelding being sold. I'll have to ask him.

Eric

[LARHAGE]

Originally Posted by IrishofNDMan

While sitting in class today, I started to day dream and think about horse racing. I started to think about recent races that I watched, and just wondered to myself, "what drives these animals to want to run, and to want to run faster than the other?" What makes them want to win a race, are they truly competitors. Then I started to think, do some horses actually have rivals, and do they know when they are going up against them in a race? Might sound like a stupid question, but your thoughts please.

In todays state of racing I would say horses don't face each other enough to have rivals. Do horses know and acknowledge other horses they have known? Yes, horses actually make Elephants look forgetful. I think people with riding horses will more likely tell of horses liking or disliking other horses because they spend more time with them than a racehorse would. I know personally of my horses likes and dislikes of certain horses and stable them in particular stalls or ride them in a certain location in a group because of it. I think when you see a horse all out to win a race, it is because some horses are more Alpha and have an inate desire to be the boss, ie. leader. The good and great horses absolutely know what the games about, thats why horses like Lava Man, Cigar and so many other gems make this game so unbelievably compelling and exciting.

I currently have a riding horse I just bought that frustrates me because she wants to be a follower, not leader. I am an aggressive rider and most of my horses, especially my homebreds have been bold, brave, go-forward type horses. I'm not liking this new view on the trail from behind horses and am realizing how much I miss my retired trail horse. I may be in the market for a new one, I don't do timid, follow the pack riding very well.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by LARHAGE

In todays state of racing I would say horses don't face each other enough to have rivals. Do horses know and acknowledge other horses they have known? Yes, horses actually make Elephants look forgetful. I think people with riding horses will more likely tell of horses liking or disliking other horses because they spend more time with them than a racehorse would. I know personally of my horses likes and dislikes of certain horses and stable them in particular stalls or ride them in a certain location in a group because of it. I think when you see a horse all out to win a race, it is because some horses are more Alpha and have an inate desire to be the boss, ie. leader. The good and great horses absolutely know what the games about, thats why horses like Lava Man, Cigar and so many other gems make this game so unbelievably compelling and exciting.

I currently have a riding horse I just bought that frustrates me because she wants to be a follower, not leader. I am an aggressive rider and most of my horses, especially my homebreds have been bold, brave, go-forward type horses. I'm not liking this new view on the trail from behind horses and am realizing how much I miss my retired trail horse. I may be in the market for a new one, I don't do timid, follow the pack riding very well.

Unfortunately, the majority of horses are followers more so than leaders. Especially trail horses. My old jumper was as big a sissy as you ever saw out on the trail, but oddly enough, he never spooked at a jump in the ten years that I owned him. I'm an aggressive rider too and I would have a hard time riding in the back! LOL