My theory and feelings on Polytrack

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by paisjpq

have you ever been around one? honu is right, they are like pissed off badgers...and that's on a good day.

Nope, but I have probably around some that were just as bad or worse. I've been kicked, trampled, bitten, bucked off, rolled over on, and have ridden horses that no one else would get on (at my barn). I'm as brave and as gutsy as they come when it comes to riding horses. Bring on the Storm Cats. I've always been a sucker for the crazy ones anyway.

Sadly, I don't get to ride as much as I used to because of college. But, if I could get in with a TB racehorse trainer to work with the horses on the track, I would probably quit college in a heartbeat and go do that. Horses are my passion, my talent, and my gift from God.

[Honu]

Im going to hold out judgement on the whole synthetic track debate.
I can see everyone's point of view the breeders, the handicappers and the bloodstock agents.
We can all debate horses were made to run on this and that and if you think about it they werent created with shoes on either so they should all run barefoot right ?

[Pointg5]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

Why, is it in your contract or something?

Comon man, you questioned me and I pointed out that I as much as ANYBODY on here is willing to put my knowledge on the line and my name proves my credability and accountability.....

I don't come on here under a false screen name and say stuff like."I was just at Overbrook and Storm Cat was put down!!!"....anybody can speak without consiquence and accountability and credability....my name is OUT THERE so I speak what I know and sicerely feel about this game....most people appreciate it, I believe....

And no, I'm not an arrogant person....I just believe in my convcitiosn when it comes to this game because I study it day and night....

If you're at the BC, I would gladly like to showe you that I'm not a punk....I know hat you mean about how people's tones are taken wrongly on the internet....I can only be as sincere as possible and hope that people KNOW the kind of person i am through my name and accept that I'm not trying to be a punk....my intentions are very good...

It's not contractual, but there could be some legal ramifications and I have been told not to do so...I am not anyone special, believe me...It's because of the industry I am in...

I didn't say you are a punk, maybe you are different in person, but some of the way you word things, could intimidate lurkers, believe me they are out there...I couldn't tell you the number of times on the ESPN board, people would start posting and say I have been reading you guys for years..

[zippyneedsawin]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

On the lighter side of things, nice avatar ...NOW GET INTO THE DEBATE!

Thanks, you too. I've been out of the loop for almost a week. Had no power for several days and no internet access(except at work) until today. I'll try to catch up and then comment where appropriate.

[SentToStud]

The way I see it is there are two perspectives.

If you earn a living buying or selling horses, you have a right to be feeling squirrely about the stuff. Uncertainty brings about anxiety. No doubt.

If you're a horseplayer and a fan, you really could care less whether Keeneland Sales revenue goes down or not. You merely decide if the meet is worth playing and, if so, you try to be smarter about it than the next person.

Joel's dad owning $600k worth of horses and the effect of Polytrack on their value is not a lot different than owning $600k worth of anything when the factors effecting value -- seen and unforseen -- change. That's just the way it goes, especially for such a speculative-type investment as race horses are.

Personally, I don't care for the stuff, but I'm not a Keeneland or Turfway or Cali bettor so it has, at least for now, less impact on me than on others. I do agree it's sad that we'll soon open our Racing Forms and see on Page 2 the fastest Artificial Surface Beyers for the year.

When the industry people come out against Polytrack as a cause for slowing the sport's growth, that's true. But, like any mature industry, the successful folks will adapt and prosper. Those who have either ridden along or have just gotten by will find something else to do.

I'll be interested to see the meet's handle figures vs prior meets.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

The people of New Orelans knew that they were in a high-risk area for hurricanes but they belive their Governing body would protect them (with levees, evacs, etc.)....Did that ahppen? and Do you blame the people of south Louisiana for their own loss? If so, you are a moron, sir....

Oh, and I lived in New Orleans and had many friends and family hit hard by the storm and aftermath last August - so I think I can talk about it.....

yes that 3 day notice of a flood was sooo bad..try going to ms where the cane really hit...wahhhhhh..n.o had nothing from the cane but small blow..then the flooding came with PLENTY OF NOTICE....TOTAL BS..

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

Nope, but I have probably around some that were just as bad or worse. I've been kicked, trampled, bitten, bucked off, rolled over on, and have ridden horses that no one else would get on (at my barn). I'm as brave and as gutsy as they come when it comes to riding horses. Bring on the Storm Cats. I've always been a sucker for the crazy ones anyway.

Sadly, I don't get to ride as much as I used to because of college. But, if I could get in with a TB racehorse trainer to work with the horses on the track, I would probably quit college in a heartbeat and go do that. Horses are my passion, my talent, and my gift from God.

I'm in awe of your gifts.

more importantly storm cat is notorious for producing just what Honu said...horses with poor wind and bad feet coupled with crooked knees and piss poor temperments...he is not doing the breed any favors.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by paisjpq

I'm in awe of your gifts.

more importantly storm cat is notorious for producing just what Honu said...horses with poor wind and bad feet coupled with crooked knees and piss poor temperments...he is not doing the breed any favors.

Nope, he isn't the soundness of animals nor are his offspring, but I admire his offspring's talents as runners, and their guts. They try their eyeballs out. For the record, I would actually never breed to a horse like Storm Cat because of the soundness issues. I am actually really big on soundness.

[disrespectnfool]

Originally Posted by oracle80

If anyone doesn't realize that this will have horrible impacts on the breeding industry, they are mistaken.
You crash the bloodstock market Pgard, and you will crash the whole game.
The reality is that the residual value is the only way you can win as an owner. You dilute the whole bloodstock market and crash the prices, you cansay goodbye to everyone but the Sheikhs and Coolmore. Noone else can afford to piss away money like that. Do you know how few yearlings purchased for over 100 grand ever earn themselves out BEFORE the additional expenses? Take away the hope on the back end, and you got nothing.

the "greeding" industry will kill this game before polytrack gets close.

[sumitas]

oh i agree with that. it's the same surface for all.

and God didn't create me and my cave men brothers to run on all weather rubberized tracks like our high school has, but i do.

[ArlJim78]

I work in an industry that has underwent sweeping changes in the last 25 years. Every time a new round of changes came through there were always members of the old guard ready to chime in with the predictable refrains. “It’ll never work”, “We’ve never done it that way”, “Don’t you realize that this will change how we do things”. Every time the people that don’t embrace or understand the changes are swept aside like relics of a by gone era. From reading some of the comments here it seems apparent that those in this industry have been relatively sheltered from change over the years and are scared to death about what might happen. It’s a natural reaction but in my mind a huge over-reaction.

The relatively minor change from dirt to engineered dirt does not alter the game or the product in any large way. In small ways yes but certainly not enough to bring the industry to its knees as was suggested. Furthermore this change has already happened. I don’t know why some are acting like it still might go away if we just cry loud enough. In the near future all this hubbub will die down and people will look back and wonder what all the hue and cry was about.

Why? Because the engineered dirt will cause both people and animal alike to make countless little changes, which will in total, ameliorate the impact of the change. Trainers and jockeys will fine-tune their craft. Maintenance crews will find ways to improve the feel and performance of the stuff. Handicapping books will be rewritten. “The Power of Early Speed” may need a total rewrite! Handicappers will find new tools (those that haven’t already) to help them develop a proper race picture. Yes there may even be changes to the roster of leading sires. So what if Storm Cat and AP Indy drop a few notches and some others rise whose progeny show a tendency to run well on the stuff. This too will become understood readily and digested by the industry.

Finally, the engineered dirt itself will evolve. While there are only so many things you can do with real dirt, there will be no end to the future refinements of this product. If we’re on version 2.0 now, soon there will be 3.0 then 4.0 and so on, each change brought about to address the industry concerns and each time it will become more and more consistent and safe. Then other companies will come along and offer an alternative and competitive pressures will ensure that the price stays down and that enhancements continue to roll out.

No I don’t see any big deal with this change. It’s not going to cause a mass exodus to dog tracks and slot machines. Although the industry is not entirely the healthiest, this change is one that in the long run will be seen as a benefit.

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

I work in an industry that has underwent sweeping changes in the last 25 years. Every time a new round of changes came through there were always members of the old guard ready to chime in with the predictable refrains. “It’ll never work”, “We’ve never done it that way”, “Don’t you realize that this will change how we do things”. Every time the people that don’t embrace or understand the changes are swept aside like relics of a by gone era. From reading some of the comments here it seems apparent that those in this industry have been relatively sheltered from change over the years and are scared to death about what might happen. It’s a natural reaction but in my mind a huge over-reaction.

The relatively minor change from dirt to engineered dirt does not alter the game or the product in any large way. In small ways yes but certainly not enough to bring the industry to its knees as was suggested. Furthermore this change has already happened. I don’t know why some are acting like it still might go away if we just cry loud enough. In the near future all this hubbub will die down and people will look back and wonder what all the hue and cry was about.

Why? Because the engineered dirt will cause both people and animal alike to make countless little changes, which will in total, ameliorate the impact of the change. Trainers and jockeys will fine-tune their craft. Maintenance crews will find ways to improve the feel and performance of the stuff. Handicapping books will be rewritten. “The Power of Early Speed” may need a total rewrite! Handicappers will find new tools (those that haven’t already) to help them develop a proper race picture. Yes there may even be changes to the roster of leading sires. So what if Storm Cat and AP Indy drop a few notches and some others rise whose progeny show a tendency to run well on the stuff. This too will become understood readily and digested by the industry.

Finally, the engineered dirt itself will evolve. While there are only so many things you can do with real dirt, there will be no end to the future refinements of this product. If we’re on version 2.0 now, soon there will be 3.0 then 4.0 and so on, each change brought about to address the industry concerns and each time it will become more and more consistent and safe. Then other companies will come along and offer an alternative and competitive pressures will ensure that the price stays down and that enhancements continue to roll out.

No I don’t see any big deal with this change. It’s not going to cause a mass exodus to dog tracks and slot machines. Although the industry is not entirely the healthiest, this change is one that in the long run will be seen as a benefit.

Wish I had written this.

I'm trying to think of something to add but I think you nailed it so all I can say is...amen.

[TitanSooner]

Very nicely written. I hope you are correct.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

But, if I could get in with a TB racehorse trainer to work with the horses on the track, I would probably quit college in a heartbeat and go do that.

That would probably be a bad idea. Get a degree before you go to work on the track, trust me on this.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

That would probably be a bad idea. Get a degree before you go to work on the track, trust me on this.

I graduate in May with two transfer degrees...

However, if the opportunity arose, I would probably take it because it is what I want to do, and I could finish my degrees online. Plus, I'm young and could always go back to school. The way I see, if you want something bad enough, you can usually find a way to make your dreams come true. My dreams lie within the horse racing industry.

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

I graduate in May with two transfer degrees...

However, if the opportunity arose, I would probably take it because it is what I want to do, and I could finish my degrees online. Plus, I'm young and could always go back to school. The way I see, if you want something bad enough, you can usually find a way to make your dreams come true. My dreams lie within the horse racing industry.

pardon my ignorance but what is a transfer degree...around here we get diplomas.

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Here's the thing, I don't care who thinks I have what credibility on here. I have nothing to prove to anyone, I'm here to talk horses. You are the one always telling everyone who you are, and what you do, and what you know. Stop trying to prove it to people, no one cares who you are. What is there to prove?

Who are you?...Exactly, now shut up and hide behind your screen name and take notes.....you might learn something....

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by paisjpq

pardon my ignorance but what is a transfer degree...around here we get diplomas.

Oh, it's just a degree that will transfer to a four year University. I'm at a community college right now. The two degrees that I am working on right now are actually Associate in Science and Associate in Arts degrees.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

There will come a time in the near future where the government will install chips in our bodies to keep track of us.

And it's common knowledge the House of Saud controls our President.

Those that take the chip will rot in hell... that's one of the first signs of the antichrist ruling.

[sumitas]

Stay focused on your education. That will serve you well down the road.