ATR Hall of Fame Debate: Gio Ponti?

[Kasept]

Mentioned in handicapping comments last week about Gio Ponti and a Hall of Fame resume.. Prompted some conversation here and on radio.

Yeah? Nay? Pros.. Cons..

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Mentioned in handicapping comments last week about Gio Ponti and a Hall of Fame resume.. Prompted some conversation here and on radio.

Yeah? Nay? Pros.. Cons..

**** **

[Port Conway Lane]

Pro- During his five year career he has run competitively in more G1 races than any horse of that era.
Con-At best he stands in line behind Curlin and the three (maybe four) filly/mares in that same time frame.

It seems a little silly to hinge a career on one final race, and if it is that borderline maybe others deserve more consideration but wait and see if he can end it on a high note.

[freddymo]

In this day and age..He is a first ballot HoF'er.. The good news nobody cares about grass champions in the US so we got to see him race. The bad news an ordinary G1 horse is a no doubt about it HoF'er

[paulo537]

7 G1 wins

14 G1 turf starts with 7 wins.

4 G1 turf starts at 1 Mile. 3 wins. One 2nd to Goldikova.

SW at ages 2,3,4,5,6.

GSW at ages 3,4,5,6

G1 winner at ages 4,5,6

What other horses have NOT made the HoF with 7 Grade 1 wins?

I'd vote yes.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by paulo537

7 G1 wins

14 G1 turf starts with 7 wins.

4 G1 turf starts at 1 Mile. 3 wins. One 2nd to Goldikova.

SW at ages 2,3,4,5,6.

GSW at ages 3,4,5,6

G1 winner at ages 4,5,6

What other horses have NOT made the HoF with 7 Grade 1 wins?

I'd vote yes.

Don't forget lost to Interpatation

[paulo537]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Don't forget lost to Interpatation

Ok.

We can't forget Karelian either.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Don't forget lost to Interpatation

Rachel Alexandra lost to Persistently. They all have limitations Fredo.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Rachel Alexandra lost to Persistently. They all have limitations Fredo.

Persistently was a monster Shug thought she was the next Zenyatta .lol not really.

Happy to have Gio around that's for sure! I would have him in Hall the minute he is eligible

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by freddymo

In this day and age..He is a first ballot HoF'er.. The good news nobody cares about grass champions in the US so we got to see him race. The bad news an ordinary G1 horse is a no doubt about it HoF'er

[King Glorious]

Interesting question. I'd say no but then when you look at some others that are in, maybe so. That just gets me back to my feeling that a lot of horses that are in now probably shouldn't be. I say good horse but not great and I end with my usual argument that any horse or player that there has to be a discussion about, where resumes have to be looked at, is not a hall of famer. It shoud be no question.

[Calzone Lord]

Manila -- in the opinion of more than a few highly respected handicappers -- was as good an American turf horse as they've said they've seen.

It took Manila 21 years after retiring to get elected into the Hall of Fame. The 16th time was the charm.

Manila was a perfect 5-for-5 in his career against Grade 1 company. He never finished worse than 2nd in 14 career tries on turf.

He won 3 different Grade 1's as a 3-year-old facing older horses - including a Breeders Cup turf victory in unquestionably the most impressive BC Turf field ever assembled.

* Theatrical was 2nd.

* Estrapade (off of a 5-length win in the 14-runner Gr 1 Arlington Million and a 2 length win over Theatrical in the 12-runner Gr 1 Oak Tree Invitational in her last two starts) was a soundly beaten 3rd.

* Dancing Brave (European Horse of the Year and still today considered one of the greatest and most popular turf horses in European history) was 4th.

Manila won his 2nd UN as a 4-year-old under handicap conditions. He also drubbed Theatrical in the Arlington Million. Theatrical had brought a 4-race win streak (3 Grade 1's and a Grade 2) into the Million and subsquently never was beaten again. After the Million defeat -- he took the Gr 1 Turf Classic, Gr 1 Man O' War, and Grade 1 BC Turf over Arc winner Trempolino in his next three starts.

Gio Ponti needs to win a dirt Grade 1 or a Breeders Cup race or just wait for the 28th ballot.


People bitched about Point Given -- he was an absolute superstar. He dominated the glamour 3yo division in a very deep year and completed a unique Preakness, Belmont, Haskell, and Travers sweep all very impressively and with a bar shoe in the Travers.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Port Conway Lane

Con-At best he stands in line behind Curlin and the three (maybe four) filly/mares in that same time frame.

He's ahead of Ghostzapper in line?

[Calzone Lord]

Never mind -- you said same time frame -- give me an F in reading comp.

[Indian Charlie]

Manila is certainly top 3 turf horses I've seen in my lifetime (well, racing lifetime, since around 84).

I have no idea how it took so long to get him in the HOF. Well, I do, because people are generally idiots, but still.

As I said before, GP in the HOF? *&@% *#

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Manila is certainly top 3 turf horses I've seen in my lifetime (well, racing lifetime, since around 84).

I have no idea how it took so long to get him in the HOF. Well, I do, because people are generally idiots, but still.

As I said before, GP in the HOF? *&@% *#

Part of the delay with Manila -- and many other deserving horses/trainers/jocks -- was the quirky way the HOF was admitting candidates..

[Calzone Lord]

Gio Ponti's lifetime PP's:

[Seattleallstar]

I put Gio Ponti in the Medaglia D'oro category. Was a good race horse and won its share of big races, but never really won when it counted and when faced with the absolute best.

[golfer]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Manila is certainly top 3 turf horses I've seen in my lifetime (well, racing lifetime, since around 84).

I have no idea how it took so long to get him in the HOF. Well, I do, because people are generally idiots, but still.

As I said before, GP in the HOF? *&@% *#

If you had been live at Tampa Bay Downs 2 years ago like I was to see his epic battle waged against Karelian you'd ............................................feel exactly the way you do now.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by golfer

If you had been live at Tampa Bay Downs 2 years ago like I was to see him get herded 20 paths wide down the stretch by Homeister on Karelian you'd ............................................feel exactly the way you do now.

Hey Seth,

FTFY

To date, the absolutely worst non-takedown I've ever seen