Lakers trade

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

...and now that one is dead too.

lol its getting to be 2 comedy. Contraction possible so they wont trade him now? Who knows whats really going. Of the 2 trades if I was the Hornets I want the Clipper trade all day over the Laker trade. No one in the Laker trade has superstar potential. Gordon could be and that draft pick is going to be very high. My man Harrison Barnes is a stud.

[King Glorious]

The asking price from the Clippers was just too much. They were willing to give up Kaman, Aminu, and Gordon, along with maybe Bledsoe or that draft pick but not all of that.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I'm sure you are right. However, how exactly has that worked out for those teams?

You never really get close to fair value. You get average players and stuck in the middle of the league going nowhere. Cleveland will be better for not trading Lebron. What exactly were they going to get from Miami?

Cleveland did technically trade LeBron to Miami. The deal was a sign and trade which gave Cleveland 2 future number 1's (between 2013-2017) and 2 future number 2's. Of course with Miami pretty much assured of selecting in the late 20's and 50's those pics arent really that valuable. Plus Cleveland got a big 1 year trade exception (cap room) which was worthless since no one wants to play for Cleveland.

You dont get fair market value because everybody knows you have no leverage but look at what Utah got for Williams. Getting something is better than getting nothing.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Why Stern was right to veto...

http://hoopspeak.com/2011/12/david-s...e-right-thing/

His was extremely flawed logic.

First of all I have a hard time understanding why if Stern were so hyper focused on keeping the Hornets attractive to a new owner (which is the basic premise) did he not simply tell Demps the parameters of a deal he would approve of? How can you say that The Hornets management was working without influence of the NBA when you are going to disapprove of a trade it come up with? You cant have it both ways.
The 2nd thing I dont agree with is that a new owner needs a star player or is concerned with immediate salary cap implications. Some guy just paid $700 million for the Houston Astros who have no stars or much in the way of prospects. The owners are buying the uniforms, not the guys in them. Chris Paul may blow out his knee tomorrow, no one is spending $300 million on a basketball team because of Chris Paul.
The 3rd thing in talking about the immediate salary cap implications the author acts as though none of the pieces acquired couldnt have been flipped to other small market teams currently trying to get above the salary floor. I mean if we are willing to let NO punt the season (which is what they are doing by keeping Paul-who exactly are they going to sign to fill out the roster/how much money are they going to be allowed to spend?) AND let Paul walk and get nothing for him....then why couldnt Scola or Martin or Odom (as shown by his trade to Dallas for what Stern supposedly wants draft picks) be traded by NO?
I could go on but this post has already flew by the tedious mendoza line...

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

lol its getting to be 2 comedy. Contraction possible so they wont trade him now? Who knows whats really going. Of the 2 trades if I was the Hornets I want the Clipper trade all day over the Laker trade. No one in the Laker trade has superstar potential. Gordon could be and that draft pick is going to be very high. My man Harrison Barnes is a stud.

So if they got Kamen, the Islamic guy, Bledsoe and the MN pick who exactly is the superstar? Lets say MN finishes 3rd from last and the pick is #3.
Last 5 years #3 picks
2011-Enes Kanter
2010-Derrick Favors
2009-James Harden
2008-OJ Mayo
2007-Al Horford
2006-Adam Morrison

I dont believe that LA would trade Gordon

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

So if they got Kamen, the Islamic guy, Bledsoe and the MN pick who exactly is the superstar? Lets say MN finishes 3rd from last and the pick is #3.
Last 5 years #3 picks
2011-Enes Kanter
2010-Derrick Favors
2009-James Harden
2008-OJ Mayo
2007-Al Horford
2006-Adam Morrison

I dont believe that LA would trade Gordon

Um Gordon and the pick. Especially if its Barnes. I read the trade did not go through because they would not give Bledsoe and Gordon. I also said potential, Gordon is a potential superstar. I think he averaged 23 a game last year.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Um Gordon and the pick. Especially if its Barnes. I read the trade did not go through because they would not give Bledsoe and Gordon. I also said potential, Gordon is a potential superstar. I think he averaged 23 a game last year.

They arent giving up Gordon and the pick, nor should they. Barnes is not even a college superstar.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

They arent giving up Gordon and the pick, nor should they. Barnes is not even a college superstar.

Chuck all day on ESPN it was Gordon the pick and the other 2. THe problem was they also wanted Bledsoe. Thats why I said earlier way way to much for the Clippers to give. The Clippers have a chance to build it up like OK City and be very good right away.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Chuck all day on ESPN it was Gordon the pick and the other 2. THe problem was they also wanted Bledsoe. Thats why I said earlier way way to much for the Clippers to give. The Clippers have a chance to build it up like OK City and be very good right away.

It is bullshit. There are 2 big chips, Gordon and the pick. They aren't going to kill the deal over Bledsoe. It is interesting that the league office values youth and picks for NO while trying to strip the Clips of all of their young players with reasonable contracts AND their most valuable pick AND I heard another pick as well. I suppose they dont mind fleecing Donald Sterling.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

So if they got Kamen, the Islamic guy, Bledsoe and the MN pick who exactly is the superstar? Lets say MN finishes 3rd from last and the pick is #3.
Last 5 years #3 picks
2011-Enes Kanter
2010-Derrick Favors
2009-James Harden
2008-OJ Mayo
2007-Al Horford
2006-Adam Morrison

I dont believe that LA would trade Gordon

This year's draft is much stronger than past years, but of course it is still a gamble.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

His was extremely flawed logic.

First of all I have a hard time understanding why if Stern were so hyper focused on keeping the Hornets attractive to a new owner (which is the basic premise) did he not simply tell Demps the parameters of a deal he would approve of? How can you say that The Hornets management was working without influence of the NBA when you are going to disapprove of a trade it come up with? You cant have it both ways.
The 2nd thing I dont agree with is that a new owner needs a star player or is concerned with immediate salary cap implications. Some guy just paid $700 million for the Houston Astros who have no stars or much in the way of prospects. The owners are buying the uniforms, not the guys in them. Chris Paul may blow out his knee tomorrow, no one is spending $300 million on a basketball team because of Chris Paul.
The 3rd thing in talking about the immediate salary cap implications the author acts as though none of the pieces acquired couldnt have been flipped to other small market teams currently trying to get above the salary floor. I mean if we are willing to let NO punt the season (which is what they are doing by keeping Paul-who exactly are they going to sign to fill out the roster/how much money are they going to be allowed to spend?) AND let Paul walk and get nothing for him....then why couldnt Scola or Martin or Odom (as shown by his trade to Dallas for what Stern supposedly wants draft picks) be traded by NO?
I could go on but this post has already flew by the tedious mendoza line...

I do think salary cap implications are huge for a new owner, especially with the new agreement. Can you imagine buying that team and having to pay a luxury tax, a team that will be around 500? You fill the seat by giving fans hope for the future or a contender, not fielding a 500 team of old guys. At the very least you need some exciting players. Martin is fringe that, the others, not even close.

We disagree on how easy it would be to "flip" those older guys. It just isn't going to happen as much as it used to happen. As for the Odom trade, they didn't get draft picks, they got a trade exception that I'm sure they'll use trying to get Howard.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I do think salary cap implications are huge for a new owner, especially with the new agreement. Can you imagine buying that team and having to pay a luxury tax, a team that will be around 500? You fill the seat by giving fans hope for the future or a contender, not fielding a 500 team of old guys. At the very least you need some exciting players. Martin is fringe that, the others, not even close.

We disagree on how easy it would be to "flip" those older guys. It just isn't going to happen as much as it used to happen. As for the Odom trade, they didn't get draft picks, they got a trade exception that I'm sure they'll use trying to get Howard.

I'm bored waiting for the track at the farm to unfreeze so...
As I said there the team wasnt necessarily finished moving pieces. Expiring contracts are still valuable AND with the salary floor teams will actually need to add players like Scola and Martin if nothing else to get over the floor until they are in their final year when they can use them as expiring contract trade bait.

The Lakers got Dallas 1st round pick this year. You have to trade a draft pick to get the exception.

And CJ, you fill seats by winning and neither scenario is going to have the Hornets winning in the near term regardless. NO's success last year not withstanding how exactly are they supposed to add pieces if Mark Cuban and company are going to go apeshit everytime they add anybody? And with the season opening in 12 days when are they planning on filling out the roster?

http://espn.go.com/nba/team/roster/_...rleans-hornets

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

It is bullshit. There are 2 big chips, Gordon and the pick. They aren't going to kill the deal over Bledsoe. It is interesting that the league office values youth and picks for NO while trying to strip the Clips of all of their young players with reasonable contracts AND their most valuable pick AND I heard another pick as well. I suppose they dont mind fleecing Donald Sterling.

Like I said I would rather have Gordon, Bledsoe and one of those UNC studs with the pick then Paul. Even if its not a UNC star the draft is loaded, a number of guys who would have been top 10 last year are still in school.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I'm bored waiting for the track at the farm to unfreeze so...
planning on filling out the roster?

http://espn.go.com/nba/team/roster/_...rleans-hornets

thats why you are supposed to come to ocala for the winter, dude.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

thats why you are supposed to come to ocala for the winter, dude.

Man it was cold today before the sun came up

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Like I said I would rather have Gordon, Bledsoe and one of those UNC studs with the pick then Paul. Even if its not a UNC star the draft is loaded, a number of guys who would have been top 10 last year are still in school.

Of course you also have to consider that Paul can be a FA in another year (or 2 if he ok's the option for next year) so the Clippers potentially could be in the same boat as other teams looking to deal guys before they leave

I really love to watch Paul play and think he is a great addition to just about any team but the NBA is being unrealistic here.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Of course you also have to consider that Paul can be a FA in another year (or 2 if he ok's the option for next year) so the Clippers potentially could be in the same boat as other teams looking to deal guys before they leave

I really love to watch Paul play and think he is a great addition to just about any team but the NBA is being unrealistic here.

They got Billups and Dwight wanted him in Orlando. Maybe its on to plan b? If you can call Howard plan B. The league should have took this trade and ran. The pick could be a stud, its a deep deep draft.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Of course you also have to consider that Paul can be a FA in another year (or 2 if he ok's the option for next year) so the Clippers potentially could be in the same boat as other teams looking to deal guys before they leave

I really love to watch Paul play and think he is a great addition to just about any team but the NBA is being unrealistic here.

From what I've read, Paul is playing a big part in holding up these deals.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

From what I've read, Paul is playing a big part in holding up these deals.

What exactly does that mean? I thought he wants out.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

From what I've read, Paul is playing a big part in holding up these deals.

I'm not sure that I believe anything being said anymore.

I would love to know what Monty Williams is thinking right now considering the season starts in 12 days and he has 5 NBA calibur players on the rostr. Not 5 NBA starting level players or 5 good players but 5 guys who are better than developmental league players.