When "Neighborhood Watch" Gets Out of Hand

Trying to figure out why Corey overcharged this case IMO. Think they're looking for Z to cop a plea to manslaughter, then it's a win/win for Corey and Gov. Scott. Lose/lose of course for Trayvon and Z, but not as much for Z. He'll be out in five years, and he'll probably be given a program on Fox plus he'll get tons of money for his book.


Ocala Mike

[OldDog]

Potential "hate crime" defense:

I was drunk.

"Baltimore's police chief today said that the videotaped beating of a white tourist does not appear to be a hate crime, but rather "drunken opportunistic criminality.""

That's a relief.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/...beating-879234

Watch Zimmerman ask for a speedy trial (which he should) and he'll get acquitted. Then riots.

yay.

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Watch Zimmerman ask for a speedy trial (which he should) and he'll get acquitted. Then riots.

yay.

It is the perfect storm and exactly what is likely to happen.
Disney first!

[bigrun]

Originally Posted by Ocala Mike

Trying to figure out why Corey overcharged this case IMO. Think they're looking for Z to cop a plea to manslaughter, then it's a win/win for Corey and Gov. Scott. Lose/lose of course for Trayvon and Z, but not as much for Z. He'll be out in five years, and he'll probably be given a program on Fox plus he'll get tons of money for his book.


Ocala Mike

Thought same thing..why the heavier charge...Must have some strong 'facts' we don't know about...I think your ole pal Doc Savage should ghost write Z's book...

Can't listen to Savage anymore; all he's doing lately is shamelessly plugging his new book and bashing both Obama and Romney. I think he's on suicide watch since Rachel Maddow's book is outselling his.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by bigrun

Thought same thing..why the heavier charge...Must have some strong 'facts' we don't know about...I think your ole pal Doc Savage should ghost write Z's book...

the main concern isn't the charge now, but whether they instruct the jury to consider lesser charges later. might as well go for the tougher and see how it plays out.
hell, they might end up with a plea before it's all said and done anyway. if i was zimmerman, i'd be seeing what deal i could get.

[bigrun]

Originally Posted by Ocala Mike

Can't listen to Savage anymore; all he's doing lately is shamelessly plugging his new book and bashing both Obama and Romney. I think he's on suicide watch since Rachel Maddow's book is outselling his.

Wow, the ultimate insult...

[bigrun]

Originally Posted by Danzig

the main concern isn't the charge now, but whether they instruct the jury to consider lesser charges later. might as well go for the tougher and see how it plays out.
hell, they might end up with a plea before it's all said and done anyway. if i was zimmerman, i'd be seeing what deal i could get.

Good point, see how things shake out...quilty as charged, or of a lesser offense, self defense, nolo contendere etc...one thing is certain, a young man (kid) is dead and justice must be served, whatever that might be..

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by bigrun

Good point, see how things shake out...quilty as charged, or of a lesser offense, self defense, nolo contendere etc...one thing is certain, a young man (kid) is dead and justice must be served, whatever that might be..

We just saw what can happen when a prosecutor overcharges (Anthony case)..hopefully they have evidence to back up charge and aren't again pandering to the public.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

We just saw what can happen when a prosecutor overcharges (Anthony case)..hopefully they have evidence to back up charge and aren't again pandering to the public.

which is why i said they should have instructed the jury that they could bring in a lesser. big mistake on their part, hope they learned their lesson.

i just think at this point a plea bargain would be best. end the circus, get him for manslaughter. do a few years (or a month? or is that only for nfl players).

He's not going to plea bargain. That would be silly. A half decent attorney will rip them to shreds.

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

He's not going to plea bargain. That would be silly. A half decent attorney will rip them to shreds.

Baez.

[Riot]

The Affidavit filed for Second Degree Murder charges:

http://apne.ws/Itn7Nu

This prosecutor is well-respected and is considered very tough. I'm sure she brought second-degree murder charges because that's what the evidence proves.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Riot

The Affidavit filed for Second Degree Murder charges:

http://apne.ws/Itn7Nu

This prosecutor is well-respected and is considered very tough. I'm sure she brought second-degree murder charges because that's what the evidence proves.

If you think, "she brought second-degree murder charges because that's what the evidence proves", then I assume you are predicting that Zimmerman will be convicted of 2nd degree murder. I predict that he will not be convicted of 2nd degree murder. We will see who is right.

[bigrun]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

If you think, "she brought second-degree murder charges because that's what the evidence proves", then I assume you are predicting that Zimmerman will be convicted of 2nd degree murder. I predict that he will not be convicted of 2nd degree murder. We will see who is right.

Don't think she was predicting that outcome but i'm with you that he will not be convicted of 2nd degree murder....looks like 4-1 odds on our side...good bet...Is Vegas taking action on this?....

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

If you think, "she brought second-degree murder charges because that's what the evidence proves", then I assume you are predicting that Zimmerman will be convicted of 2nd degree murder. I predict that he will not be convicted of 2nd degree murder. We will see who is right.

You would ass-ume wrongly. The prosecutors reputation is exemplary, and is that of getting convictions, of being very tough and accurate. She didn't need a grand jury. I'm sure she's filed those charges, and not 1st degree murder charges, and not manslaughter charges, because she has evidence that readily meets the definition of 2nd degree murder.

If that's what he'll be convicted of, if he's convicted at all, I don't know what the jury will do.

[Riot]

Here's some interesting stuff about Florida murder laws (first and manslaughter there, too, on different pages)

http://www.richardhornsby.com/crimes...tml#Definition

Second Degree Murder in Florida

If accused of Second Degree Murder in Florida, you need to know the:

Definition of Second Degree Murder
Penalties for Second Degree Murder
Defenses to Second Degree Murder

Definition of Second Degree Murder

The crime of Second Degree Murder occurs when a person commits either:

Murder with a Depraved Mind or
Accomplice Felony Murder

Murder with a Depraved Mind

Murder with a Depraved Mind occurs when a person is killed, without any premeditated design, by an act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind showing no regard for human life.

The primary distinction between Premeditated First Degree Murder and Second Degree Murder with a Depraved Mind is that First Degree Murder requires a specific and premeditated intent to kill.

Accomplice Felony Murder

Accomplice Felony Second Degree Murder occurs when you are an accomplice to a person who kills another human being while engaged in the commission, or attempted commission, of the following statutorily enumerated felonies, regardless of whether they intended the death:

Aggravated abuse of an elderly person or disabled adult,
Aggravated child abuse,
Aggravated stalking,
Aircraft piracy,
Arson,
Burglary
Carjacking,
Distribution of Controlled Substances
Escape,
Home-invasion robbery,
Kidnapping,
Murder of another human being,
Resisting Officer with Violence,
Robbery,
Sexual battery,
Terrorism,
Trafficking in Controlled Substances, or
Unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb.

Penalties for Second Degree Murder

The crime of Second Degree Murder is classified as a First Degree Felony and is assigned a Level 10 offense severity ranking under Florida's Criminal Punishment Code.

If convicted of Second Degree Murder, a judge is required to impose a minimum prison sentence of 16¾ years in prison and can impose any additional combination of the following penalties:

Up to Life in prison.
Up to Life on probation.
Up to $10,000 in fines.

10/20/Life

Under Florida's 10-20-Life law, a person who uses a Firearm to commit Second Degree Murder must be sentenced to a minimum-mandatory prison sentence of 25 years. [1]

Defenses to Second Degree Murder

In addition to the pretrial defenses and trial defenses that can be raised in any criminal case, specific defenses to the crime of Second Degree Murder are:

Excusable Homicide

The killing of a human being is excusable, and therefore lawful, under any one of the following three circumstances:

When the killing is committed by accident and misfortune in doing any lawful act by lawful means with usual ordinary caution and without any unlawful intent, or
When the killing occurs by accident and misfortune in the heat of passion, upon any sudden and sufficient provocation, or
When the killing is committed by accident and misfortune resulting from a sudden combat, if a dangerous weapon is not used and the killing is not done in a cruel or unusual manner.

Justifiable Homicide

The killing of a human being is justifiable homicide and lawful if done while resisting an attempt by someone to kill you or to commit a felony against you.
Self Defense

Also known as the justified use of deadly force, self defense is a defense to the crime of Second Degree Murder. Please view the Florida Self Defense section for more information.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by bigrun

Don't think she was predicting that outcome but i'm with you that he will not be convicted of 2nd degree murder....looks like 4-1 odds on our side...good bet...Is Vegas taking action on this?....

I doubt anyone is taking bets but I totally agree with you. I think most legal experts would agree that it would be a longshot for Zimmerman to be convicted of 2nd degree murder based on the evidence we have seen so far.

Here is an interesting article that talks about what to expect going forward with the case. This article touches on many different issues that some of you may be curious about including how some of Florida's laws differ from other states.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...rvers-say?lite

It will be interesting to see if Zimmerman is granted bail. For this type of case, I think the defendant normally would be granted bail. However, I wouldn't make a prediction in this case simply because there will be a huge amount of public pressure on the judge to deny bail.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

It will be interesting to see if Zimmerman is granted bail. For this type of case, I think the defendant normally would be granted bail. However, I wouldn't make a prediction in this case simply because there will be a huge amount of public pressure on the judge to deny bail.

No, they did not ask for bail today. He's in prison now. I heard he was being kept apart from other prisoners in his own cell for protection.

There appears to be only three defenses against 2nd degree murder, and self-defense is the only one Zimmerman appears to have. And considering Zimmerman followed and stalked Trayvon while carrying a loaded gun, self-defense doesn't look good.