End fossil fuel welfare handouts paid for by taxpayers

[Riot]

It is important that the American people understand just how egregious these fossil fuel handouts are:

A Tax Deduction for an Oil Spill? -- We all remember the BP oil disaster in the Gulf of Mexico, the worst oil spill in U.S. history. What is less well known is that BP is claiming a 9.9 billion tax deduction on the money they had to spend cleaning up their own mess and paying for damages they caused. That is absurd.

They Manufacture What? -- Coal and oil lobbyists added fossil fuels to a bill aimed at helping American manufacturers, so they too could claim 'manufacturing' tax deductions. The added cost for taxpayers:12 billion over the next ten years.

Good Enough for Big Oil, but not Clean Energy -- Most of us have not heard about Master Limited Partnerships. These special financing arrangements allow oil and gas investors to avoid paying certain corporate income taxes, but are not available to clean energy businesses. Ending this fossil fuel loophole not only starts to level the playing field for clean energy investment, it saves the government an estimated 2.4 billion over the next decade.

Free Federal Oil and Gas Leases? -- Fossil fuel corporations are supposed to pay the government fair market royalties in exchange for the right to drill on public lands or in federal waters. But thanks to a loophole in federal law, some oil and gas corporations drilling in the Gulf of Mexico pay zero in royalties. The non-partisan Government Accountability Office estimated this could cost taxpayers up to 53 billion over the life of these loophole leases.

"Let's End Polluter Welfare"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rep-be...b_1531880.html

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by Riot

"Let's End Polluter Welfare"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rep-be...b_1531880.html

Yes because we all know these upright, stately dinizens of our economy will just absorb that financial hit in their shorts & their shareholders will applaud footing the bill for this.

They'll probably just say "We've gotten fat off these *tax breaks* lo these many years, and well, gosh darnit - it isn't fair to our customers anymore. So we'll just agree to make less money".

Don't think for a second that they'd ever pass it on to consumers, or better yet sell it all to China and screw us all together.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Yes because we all know these upright, stately dinizens of our economy will just absorb that financial hit in their shorts & their shareholders will applaud footing the bill for this.

So you think it's better that you and I, the taxpayers, continue to pay to subsidize these private companies and investors?

Not out of my checkbook. But you go ahead.

If the companies screw their investors when they lose their tax breaks - well, that's just capitalism and the free market at work. Too bad for those investors. They should have attended their stockholder meetings if that's the Board they've voted in.

Right now there is no free market - these parasites are living off welfare: our government subsidies.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Riot

So you think it's better that you and I, the taxpayers, continue to pay to subsidize these private companies and investors?

Not out of my checkbook. But you go ahead.

If the companies screw their investors when they lose their tax breaks - well, that's just capitalism and the free market at work. Too bad for those investors. They should have attended their stockholder meetings if that's the Board they've voted in.

Right now there is no free market - these parasites are living off welfare: our government subsidies.

I may be wrong but I think his point is they will get it from your tax dollars and if they eliminate that they will get it directly from you at the pump. Just think of it like everything else Lose/Lose for us.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by jms62

I may be wrong but I think his point is they will get it from your tax dollars and if they eliminate that they will get it directly from you at the pump. Just think of it like everything else Lose/Lose for us.

I'd rather end the subsidies, and see them pass it on at the pump. That is the entire point of the article. It will even out the US market and show the propped-up oil industries for what they are.

The oil industry in the US has been an untenable bloated welfare recipient for decades now. They are getting bilions and billions of dollars from us. We're broke. It's time the welfare handouts to Big Oil stopped.

For the first time, we're a net exporter of oil. Time we used that cushion to wean the dependent off government subsidies, and allow the entire energy market to flourish.

Oh - and our pollution to decrease.

[geeker2]

and let's not leave out these Renewable Blood-suckers!

Energy Incentives for Businesses in the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act

http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/...209564,00.html

[Rudeboyelvis]

Well his own Energy Secretary said he didn't understand why we weren't paying 9.00 a gallon for gas like in Europe, so it stands to reason that it sits well with you too.

As a consumer, you at least have control over these subsidies as they come back directly to you - that is the whole point of them. Without it, this entire country would stop.

What do you the the gubment is going to do with your money when they aren't giving it to Big Oil? Give it back to you? BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

[Riot]

Originally Posted by geeker2

and let's not leave out these Renewable Blood-suckers!

Energy Incentives for Businesses in the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act

http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/...209564,00.html

Exactly. Thanks. You've itemized the untenable, massive difference in government choosing winners (Big Oil) and losers.

Multiple billions to the oil companies and their stockholders at our expense, while the rest of the energy industry - inherently less expensive and cleaner to produce - struggles along.

We're broke. The massive subsidies propping up the record profit-taking of the oil industries must stop. Why does the number one company in profit in the country need billions in subsides? Let's end those subsidies, and use that money to pay down the deficit.

Repeal Big Oil Tax Subsidies Act of 2012

S.2204, the Repeal Big Oil Tax Subsidies Act of 2012, would eliminate over $20 billion dollars of annual tax subsidies for “major integrated oil companies” – the five biggest, most profitable private sector companies. Smaller, independent producers will not be affected.

Last year, the five biggest private sector oil companies—BP, Chevron, ConocoPhillips, ExxonMobil, and Royal Dutch Shell Group — made a record $137 billion, and every additional penny they charge at the pump increases their profits by $200 million dollars per quarter. Yet each year Big Oil receives billions of dollars in taxpayer subsidies. The Repeal Big Oil Tax Subsidies Act eliminates these unnecessary subsidies.

The only way to really prevent gas price spikes is an energy strategy that reduces our dependence on foreign oil by exploring responsibly and investing in clean energy technology. The Repeal Big Oil Tax Subsidies Act uses the savings from unnecessary subsidies for Big Oil to support growing clean energy industries like alternative fuel vehicles, advanced manufacturing, wind, and solar.

The Repeal Big Oil Tax Subsidies Act would renew incentives for clean energy technologies like the Section 1603 grant program and Section 48C Advanced Energy Manufacturing Tax Credit.

Additional savings from the Big Oil Subsidies ended by the Repeal Big Oil Tax Subsidies Act would also be used to help bring down the federal deficit.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Well his own Energy Secretary said he didn't understand why we weren't paying 9.00 a gallon for gas like in Europe, so it stands to reason that it sits well with you too.

No, that's not what Chu said.

As a consumer, you at least have control over these subsidies as they come back directly to you - that is the whole point of them. Without it, this entire country would stop.

No, these subsides do not "come back to me" in cost lowering at the pump, they go into massive profit for the oil companies.

What do you the the gubment is going to do with your money when they aren't giving it to Big Oil? Give it back to you? BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

Nope. Use it to pay down our massive deficit, caused by all these free government welfare handouts to record-profitable companies that pay little to no tax.

[geeker2]

Originally Posted by Riot

Exactly. Thanks. You've itemized the untenable, massive difference in government choosing winners (Big Oil) and losers.

Multiple billions to the oil companies and their stockholders at our expense, while the rest of the energy industry - inherently less expensive and cleaner to produce - struggles along.

We're broke. The massive subsidies propping up the record profit-taking of the oil industries must stop. Why does the number one company in profit in the country need billions in subsides? Let's end those subsidies, and use that money to pay down the deficit.

ah... no not exactly...but nice spin.

You demonize Oil & Coal and yet neglect to mention that Renewables are highly subsidized too.

If you leveled the playing field and let the best form of energy survive - it will - and it won't be Renewables.


If you had to pay the actual cost for Renewable Energy you wouldn't turn on your plasma TV.

If you took away all of the subsidies and prohibited people from dying young of mysterious illnesses that work in renewable energy...

then we wouldn't have a problem. There wouldn't be a need for wars. And Tesla would be God.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by geeker2

ah... no not exactly...but nice spin.

You demonize Oil & Coal and yet neglect to mention that Renewables are highly subsidized too.

I'm not "demonizing". I'm pointing out the fact that they are extremely profitable companies, they pay little to no tax, and they have received, and are due to receive, billions in taxpayer welfare handouts to prop their balance sheet up. They are private companies. Enough. We're broke. Stand on your own, private big oil companies, without government subsidy.

Renewables are nowhere near subsidized as Big Oil (billions over decades in the past, and billions in decades to come) has been, and is. That is the very point.

Big Oil is massively profitable, it no longer needs billions of dollars in taxpayer welfare to exist. Other alternative energy sources should have an equal chance to succeed in the marketplace, without private Big Oil getting massive subsidies and gifts of money from the government (our pockets).

If you leveled the playing field and let the best form of energy survive - it will - and it won't be Renewables.

I'd guess it would be natural gas. And yes - leveling the playing field is exactly what the energy industry should be about, and what this new law is attempting to do. We are broke. We have a deficit we need to fix. Let's stop the corporate welfare checks. We don't have money to prop up Big Oil private profits. Every single conservative and libertarian "against big government welfare" believer should be 100% in favor of this.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Sounds great - good luck with that.

You're logic is flawed, but you don't have the sense to notice it. While you're at it, why are Big Pharma, Big Ag, and the Medical/Insurance machine allowed to still suck off the same teet that you think you can strong arm Big Oil off of?

It's entirely too complex to just say "screw them, they'll just have to do with less".

There is global demand for their product, and they will sell it anywhere but here if it is not as profitable, if not more so, for them to do so.

You have zero leverage to in that regard. It's pretty much comparable to why junkies don't have a lot of say in what their drug of choice happens to be.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

You're logic is flawed, but you don't have the sense to notice it.

Said the man who thinks the President of the United States birth certificate is a faked conspiracy theory

[pointman]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Yes because we all know these upright, stately dinizens of our economy will just absorb that financial hit in their shorts & their shareholders will applaud footing the bill for this.

They'll probably just say "We've gotten fat off these *tax breaks* lo these many years, and well, gosh darnit - it isn't fair to our customers anymore. So we'll just agree to make less money".

Don't think for a second that they'd ever pass it on to consumers, or better yet sell it all to China and screw us all together.

Amazing she doesn't get this. In reality it's helps the poor, could you imagine what the half of this country that doesn't pay taxes would do if they had to pay $9 a gallon?

[Riot]

What's amazing is you rocket scientists think that eliminating billions in tax breaks for the big five oil companies will magically cause gasoline to go to $9 a gallon.

Do you know how gasoline is purchased for use within this country?

Apparently not.

"OMG, we can't get rid of tax breaks for Big Oil, they own us! They are holding us hostage for that money! We are victims of Big Oil extortion! We can't tell them to get off the government teat, they'll harm us! Give them more money! Give them the money! We love you, Big Oil - have some more tax breaks! You're just private companies, but you own the US government and hold us hostage to your private profit! "

Good lord. You'd think you guys who are all about small government and fix the deficit would stand up to massive private corporate bullies and their owned government Congressmen and Senators that are stealing your money. Instead of excusing the behaviour and enabling them. Let alone being afraid of them!

[Honu]

From what I have read we are producing more oil in this country right now than we have for a long time. There are new oil reserves being found all over the country yet we are still paying thru the teeth for gas. Something is rotten in Denmark....is it the oil speculators? Is it our own country gouging its citizens? We have oil rigs sitting out in the ocean here in Cali that we dont use and are just a shi tting spot for water foul, why? Its more than taxes and tax breaks and its way more than who is president.....we are being fleeced and the best way to tell them to go f*ck themselves is by buying electric cars and finding non fuel transportation for everyday life. When gas prices go up I know that I find ways to minimize my driving habits, I know that some dont have that option.
Oil speculators should be banned. What if there were wheat and corn speculators, would that be ok with the world?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Honu

From what I have read we are producing more oil in this country right now than we have for a long time. There are new oil reserves being found all over the country yet we are still paying thru the teeth for gas. Something is rotten in Denmark....is it the oil speculators? Is it our own country gouging its citizens? We have oil rigs sitting out in the ocean here in Cali that we dont use and are just a shi tting spot for water foul, why? Its more than taxes and tax breaks and its way more than who is president.....we are being fleeced and the best way to tell them to go f*ck themselves is by buying electric cars and finding non fuel transportation for everyday life. When gas prices go up I know that I find ways to minimize my driving habits, I know that some dont have that option.
Oil speculators should be banned. What if there were wheat and corn speculators, would that be ok with the world?

Yes, oil speculators have alot to do with it. Oil companies in the US should have to compete on a fair market with the rest of the country's energy manufacturers, not continue to get government gifts of billions of dollars bloating their already legendary profits and eliminating them paying their taxes. Coal and oil are ridiculously out of date as fuel. Even trucking companies are going to natural gas.

Part of the auto bailout deal was requiring the car companies to hurry up with mileage improvements.

BTW, there are corn and wheat speculators (futures traders). And there are subsidies for those crops, too.

The same cast of characters who control oil also control all other sources of energy or will. That's why there is a delay. The only way to change things is through revolution and that is simply impossible in this day and age.

They won. Get used to it.

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by Riot

No, that's not what Chu said.



No, these subsides do not "come back to me" in cost lowering at the pump, they go into massive profit for the oil companies.



Nope. Use it to pay down our massive deficit, caused by all these free government welfare handouts to record-profitable companies that pay little to no tax.

Shortly before he became President Barack Obama's energy secretary, Steven Chu declared, "Somehow we have to figure out how to boost the price of gasoline to the levels in Europe" -- which were around $8 per gallon at the time.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0212/73138.html

You sure about that?