Flow chart we can agree on

[bigrun]

You probably have seen this one but thought it was a good time to drag it out..





Right or left, it doesn't matter. It is really only up or down in politics.





When top level people look down, they see only shiitheads;

When the bottom level people look up, they see only assholes.

You will Never see another Flow Chart that describes politics so clearly.

[dellinger63]

Sad there should be another tier added to the bottom consisting of American taxpayers. I suppose at least the freeloaders can be given credit for taking and not contributing to such a crappy system.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by bigrun

You probably have seen this one but thought it was a good time to drag it out..





Right or left, it doesn't matter. It is really only up or down in politics.





When top level people look down, they see only shiitheads;

When the bottom level people look up, they see only assholes.

You will Never see another Flow Chart that describes politics so clearly.

surprised i hadn't seen that before. sums thinks up very succinctly. but no, not everyone will agree that it's correct. some would remove the democrat bird, others the republican bird. but yeah, either way, we're the ones getting shat upon.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Danzig

surprised i hadn't seen that before. sums thinks up very succinctly. but no, not everyone will agree that it's correct. some would remove the democrat bird, others the republican bird. but yeah, either way, we're the ones getting shat upon.

Only if you're law abiding and paying taxes.

The illegals and deadbeats have ultimate lives here in America.

Free of taxes and free to stay.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

Only if you're law abiding and paying taxes.

The illegals and deadbeats have ultimate lives here in America.

Free of taxes and free to stay.

Illegals that have jobs pay taxes, Dell - local, state, federal, SS and Medicare - and never get it back. That money goes into your pockets.

Obama has deported more illegal immigrants to date than Bush did his entire term.

[bigrun]

Please, no facts here....just opinions...

[Riot]

Originally Posted by bigrun

Please, no facts here....just opinions...

Bigotry hates facts.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

Only if you're law abiding and paying taxes.

The illegals and deadbeats have ultimate lives here in America.

Free of taxes and free to stay.

ultimate lives. yeah, sure they do. i think the biggest difference between you and me is you spend far too much time worrying about people you just know are getting over on everyone else. well, or you make assumptions when you see someone who 'fits the bill' that they're gaming the system.

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by Riot

Illegals that have jobs pay taxes, Dell - local, state, federal, SS and Medicare - and never get it back. That money goes into your pockets.

Obama has deported more illegal immigrants to date than Bush did his entire term.

Illegals with jobs do pay taxes, unless they work in farming, food service, landscaping, child care or construction. Those folks are paid daily in cash. I have paid them myself (though not for my companies) aside from the farming and child care groups, though I am fully aware that it does happen that way.

[Clip-Clop]

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-c...igrants-2012-7

Even worse when you find out about those that do pay.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

Illegals with jobs do pay taxes, unless they work in farming, food service, landscaping, child care or construction. Those folks are paid daily in cash. I have paid them myself (though not for my companies) aside from the farming and child care groups, though I am fully aware that it does happen that way.

and there are plenty of american citizens who also get paid 'under the table'. but immigrants are much easier to attack and blame. but they still pay taxes in other ways, including sales tax, etc.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

Illegals with jobs do pay taxes, unless they work in farming, food service, landscaping, child care or construction. Those folks are paid daily in cash. I have paid them myself (though not for my companies) aside from the farming and child care groups, though I am fully aware that it does happen that way.

Yes, but every American who hires isn't a lawbreaker. The vast majority of illegals get SS numbers and pay into the systems, without ever getting anything out. Their money goes to us.

All those American citizen business owners you describe, that are breaking the law in several ways (illegal hiring, tax evasion), need to be punished - no? We can't blame illegals entirely when folks like you enable them to stay here by you deliberately breaking the law and committing tax evasion in their hiring.

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by Riot

Yes, but every American who hires isn't a lawbreaker. The vast majority of illegals get SS numbers and pay into the systems, without ever getting anything out. Their money goes to us.

All those American citizen business owners you describe, that are breaking the law in several ways (illegal hiring, tax evasion), need to be punished - no? We can't blame illegals entirely when folks like you enable them to stay here by you deliberately breaking the law and committing tax evasion in their hiring.

Absolutely, please suggest a punishment for those people. I would suggest something severe enough that they will hire Americans to do those jobs instead. When the boss handed me cash to give to the daily guys, I gave it to them, all of my employees are college grads that could not get jobs in the field of their education. Do not lump me in with folks "deliberately breaking the law." Especially while talking about enabling people.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

Absolutely, please suggest a punishment for those people.

Those punishments already exist. American citizens who knowingly hire illegals, or fail to check as required, have broken several laws, and paying people in cash - whether illegal aliens or not - breaks several more.

As a fellow business owner who does hiring and has a payroll, I'm sure that you, like me, know this already.

I would suggest something severe enough that they will hire Americans to do those jobs instead. When the boss handed me cash to give to the daily guys, I gave it to them, all of my employees are college grads that could not get jobs in the field of their education. Do not lump me in with folks "deliberately breaking the law." Especially while talking about enabling people

So, you feel better about your breaking the law, and illegally paying folks cash, because they were not illegals? That's exactly equally as illegal and lawbreaking as paying illegals in cash.

I lump you in with "folks deliberately breaking the law", because you did.

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by Riot

Those punishments already exist. American citizens who knowingly hire illegals, or fail to check as required, have broken several laws, and paying people in cash - whether illegal aliens or not - breaks several more.

As a fellow business owner who does hiring and has a payroll, I'm sure that you, like me, know this already.



So, you feel better about your breaking the law, and illegally paying folks cash, because they were not illegals? That's exactly equally as illegal and lawbreaking as paying illegals in cash.

I lump you in with "folks deliberately breaking the law", because you did.

I am suggesting that people hiring illegals and paying them cash should be so very afraid of the consequences of that crime that they would be lining up outside the welfare and unemployment offices to hire legal citizens.
Dense.
So once again it is the enforcement of the laws that already exist that is the issue, not the laws themselves. If only we could use the rules that have been created to stamp out these criminals, all criminals for that matter.
When did I break the law? Never hired anyone illegally.
Read things how you wish and comment away just like always.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

I am suggesting that people hiring illegals and paying them cash should be so very afraid of the consequences of that crime that they would be lining up outside the welfare and unemployment offices to hire legal citizens.

We already have laws that make it clearly illegal to hire illegal aliens, and every employer is required by law to check alien status before hiring.

If employers, American citizens, choose deliberately to break the law, if they are so disrespectful of our laws, they are already subject to punishment.

What punishment, over and above the current, do you think that punishment should be raised to, to prevent American employers from choosing to break the law? You and your boss are clearly not afraid of breaking the current laws - what would make you so afraid you'd stop your payroll tax evasion and law breaking in hiring? You say that is what should stop you - so, what would stop you?

So once again it is the enforcement of the laws that already exist that is the issue, not the laws themselves. If only we could use the rules that have been created to stamp out these criminals, all criminals for that matter.
When did I break the law? Never hired anyone illegally.
Read things how you wish and comment away just like always.

No. It is people such as you and your boss, that enable illegal aliens to work here, because you choose to break our current law and not check alien status before you hire.

You pay those people cash without checking their alien status? Aside from your deliberate payroll tax evasion that hurts me, personally, and my fellow citizens, by denying our treasury income, because you are a tax cheat, you are enabling illegals to work here.

You can try to slide out of that however you want, but employers such as you and your boss - who hire outside our law and pay cash - are a major reason illegal aliens (those without faked social security numbers) get employment in America and can stay here.

And you saying you do it because the laws that punish you don't scare you enough to make you stop is beyond absurd.

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by Riot

We already have laws that make it clearly illegal to hire illegal aliens, and every employer is required by law to check alien status before hiring.

If employers, American citizens, choose deliberately to break the law, if they are so disrespectful of our laws, they are already subject to punishment.

What punishment, over and above the current, do you think that punishment should be raised to, to prevent American employers from choosing to break the law? You and your boss are clearly not afraid of breaking the current laws - what would make you so afraid you'd stop your payroll tax evasion and law breaking in hiring? You say that is what should stop you - so, what would stop you?




No. It is people such as you and your boss, that enable illegal aliens to work here, because you choose to break our current law and not check alien status before you hire.

You pay those people cash without checking their alien status? Aside from your deliberate payroll tax evasion that hurts me, personally, and my fellow citizens, by denying our treasury income, because you are a tax cheat, you are enabling illegals to work here.

You can try to slide out of that however you want, but employers such as you and your boss - who hire outside our law and pay cash - are a major reason illegal aliens (those without faked social security numbers) get employment in America and can stay here.

And you saying you do it because the laws that punish you don't scare you enough to make you stop is beyond absurd.

And still you cannot read. NOT FOR MY COMPANIES, over and over. Pointless. Another thread likely to die as a result of your reading comprehension. Shame no one ever gets to finish a discussion or debate around here.

[dellinger63]

Are illegals going to be required to obtain health insurance? Or are we going to treat them status quo? You know thru the ER.

BTW Legals who are being paid under the table to avoid having beni's cancelled are worse than illegals doing the same IMO.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

Are illegals going to be required to obtain health insurance? Or are we going to treat them status quo? You know thru the ER.

BTW Legals who are being paid under the table to avoid having beni's cancelled are worse than illegals doing the same IMO.

illegals are not able to obtain insurance thru exchanges. i doubt the'd try anyway-why would they get themselves flagged like that?
and, again, a recent study said the 'er' thing is hogwash anyway. but facts can be pesky things.
and anyone being paid cash is doing a wrong, not any worse or better regardless of status.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Danzig

and anyone being paid cash is doing a wrong, not any worse or better regardless of status.

People being paid in cash to avoid taxes are stealing from the pot.

People being paid in cash to avoid taxes and still receive unemployment, food stamps, SSI etc. are stealing twice.

Get it now?

Since illegals aren't allowed to participate in the exchanges are they still able to send their illegal children to public school? And who pays for that?