Pedigree ignored in placement

[Calzone Lord]

It seems like everyday, without really trying, you can find a handful of horses whose pedigree get totally ignored in terms of the distance and or surface where they're being placed.

I don't mean that they're racing at distances and surfaces counter to what they're bred for ... I mean they are Not even being tried at the surface or distance they're bred for.

Why would a breeder bother to take a turf sire, breed him to a turf slanted mare, and have that horse run on dirt their entire career and never try the surface they're obviously being bred for?

I'm sure there is no logical answer for that, but it happens a lot.

Another mysterious thing is when horses are bred for distance -- and they never get tried beyond 6 furlongs.

An example would be like Bonita Sonata in the 5th race at AQU today. Her sire is Anasheed:





Anasheed was one of those well bred textbook A. P. Indy plodders. His offspring have made 404 starts in sprint races and won 8%. They have made 538 starts in route races and have won 13%.

Yet, Bonita Sonata is making her 10th career start today, and all 10 starts have come at the distance of six furlongs.

At some point, all horses should be given a chance to do what they're bred to do. It's head-scratching how many don't get a chance. Especially with cheaper horses bred for turf.

[cakes44]

As far as horses not tried on turf, I really believe there are trainers that don't have a clue how to train a turf horse, and know it, so they don't bother trying.

Nick Zito is the real deal developing a 3-year-old on dirt, but he'd rather a horse lose 50 straight 1st level allowances than run him on the grass.

[Calzone Lord]

Zito has always had a terrible record on the turf. I never understood why.

Bruce Levine was a guy, for many years, who couldn't win to save his life on Turf.

The horse who ran today at AQU, Bonita Sonata, how do you keep running that horse six furlongs? Irrational.

[Cannon Shell]

When I 1st started training and we were claiming horses we made quite a few no brainer claims of turf pedigreed horses running on the dirt. The Knight Sky, Fast City and El Ballezano are names I can remember off the top of my head. Of course now there are so many more turf races it is harder to find these types.

[Aly-Sheba]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Zito has always had a terrible record on the turf. I never understood why.

Bruce Levine was a guy, for many years, who couldn't win to save his life on Turf.

The horse who ran today at AQU, Bonita Sonata, how do you keep running that horse six furlongs? Irrational.

This is a little off your subject, but I find it hard to handicap back east races for maidens going long on the turf, because there are first timers who have not worked more then 5 furlong and the race is 1-1/8? You don't see many horses going long on the turf first time out on the west coast, but if they do, you will see at least a 6 furlong work or longer.

[Danzig]

reminds me of the adage, what do you call the guy who graduated last in his class in med school?
doctor.

not all trainers are good ones, obviously. and like some coaches, some trainers try to get their horse to fit their style, rather than working with the horses style. so, you get horses like the one named in the initial post. might be a good candidate for a claim.

[Linny]

Back in the 80's all these 3rd rate sons of Northern Dancer wre hitting the stud in secondary markets like NY and it took forever before trainers figured out that they were grass bred. I'd have figured that by now Finger Lakes could have filled their sumer schedule with offspring of stallions like that. Now it's Freud, a full to Giant's Causeway. In fact GC is now old enough that some of his 2nd tier sons are here too.

Now that the turf sprint is here to stay, a whole new bunch of stallions have options for success.

I was told by a fairly good trainer some time ago that in mamy cases trainers do know that a horse is route bred, but they don't think they have the best wind so they keep them short. In the winter it can be tough to train enough into them to stretch them out.

[Sir Barton]

Originally Posted by Aly-Sheba

This is a little off your subject, but I find it hard to handicap back east races for maidens going long on the turf, because there are first timers who have not worked more then 5 furlong and the race is 1-1/8? You don't see many horses going long on the turf first time out on the west coast, but if they do, you will see at least a 6 furlong work or longer.

If you use formulator click maiden sp/claim, route, and turf for each trainer in the race and I am sure you will become much better very quickly.