Disability

[jms62]

Obviously people are abusing the system.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/reco...populous-state

[dino]

Just another way to get a free check on someone else's back. Whatever happenned to contributing to society.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by dino

Just another way to get a free check on someone else's back. Whatever happenned to contributing to society.

I have a friend in Florida who is on permanent disability. Having watched her try and try and try and try and try to get a job (after the company she worked at for over a decade closed), and get fired over and over, usually on the first day, I can say she really wanted to contribute to society, but society told her to go **** herself. She considered suicide over it at one point; she was so depressed.

Absolutely, there is abuse in the system, but we also have a system that is biased against people without a college education. If those people aren't in good physical health, they often can't get a job because most jobs available to people with just a high school diploma are physically grueling. There's an interesting article that came out a while ago about it:

http://apps.npr.org/unfit-for-work/

My uncle is very right-wing, but he talks about how the endless move to privatize everything really hurt the police force (he's a retired trooper). He said years back, everything was done in-house on the force, so if a trooper got injured, or got too old to handle the beat, there were always desk jobs that had to be done, and the troopers got moved to them. Now that those jobs are contracted out, there aren't jobs for the older or injured troopers to do, and they end up on disability, which, in the end, costs more money overall.

Again, not arguing about the fact that there is abuse of the disability program, but it's not like it's easy to get on - my friend had to go through over a year of applications, and was rejected the first time. And she comes up for review every four or so years, as do most people on it. And it means she's going to spend her life in poverty. She lives with her parents; she struggles to make ends meet; she doesn't have a life.

The bigger issue is long-term structural unemployment and a vanishing of jobs that don't require at least a bachelor's degree and a 25-year-old's physical resilience. Unless one feels, like Scrooge, that if the alternative for these people is death then, "they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population."

[dino]

Obviously there are millions of people that are legit but just like our lovely welfare system there are way too many people abusing the system. There needs to be more checks and balances and when the find doctors that are signing off on phoney disability claims the need to prosecute.
In Mass. they just did a welfare audit and found thousands of people that were either dead or living in other states that were receiving benefits. Welfare was put in place as temporary relief for people trying to get on their feet. Now it's mainly a lifetime thing. Welcome to Obama's world.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by dino

Obviously there are millions of people that are legit but just like our lovely welfare system there are way too many people abusing the system. There needs to be more checks and balances and when the find doctors that are signing off on phoney disability claims the need to prosecute.
In Mass. they just did a welfare audit and found thousands of people that were either dead or living in other states that were receiving benefits. Welfare was put in place as temporary relief for people trying to get on their feet. Now it's mainly a lifetime thing. Welcome to Obama's world.

I agree with most of what you say. However blamingObama for something that has been an issue for decades. You are exactly the sheep that the politicians love. Blame the other party while both pick your pockets.

[Danzig]

i know of people with illegit claims, and others with legit issues who get turned down. no consistency, no rhyme or reason for how some get approval, and others don't.
just like any legislation that means well, there will be people who work the system.

on a somewhat related note.....

i have a part-time employee. she brought a paper in last week, but didn't give it to me right away. saw it the other morning, it's for the state dept of human services, but it's in her maiden name.
now, i haven't had a chance to get back with her yet, because i was off while she worked last thursday....but does she really think i'm going to fill out and sign something i know isn't correct???
sad thing is, others do it every day. i expect to be looking for a new employee when i tell her i'm not touching it. she's obviously getting services that she wouldn't qualify for if they knew she was married. why else have it that way?

[dellinger63]

It would be nice if 'no taxation without representation' worked the other way around.

[Danzig]

so, just got off the phone with my (soon to be former??) employee. she is now claiming she and hubby are divorced, and that's why it's in her maiden name. but isn't your legal name ___, i asked?
she's supposed to call her caseworker...i'm not holding my breath.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

some of those claims are hand downs for dead people who have dependents under 18 I think..

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by dino

In Mass. they just did a welfare audit and found thousands of people that were either dead or living in other states that were receiving benefits. Welfare was put in place as temporary relief for people trying to get on their feet. Now it's mainly a lifetime thing. Welcome to Obama's world.

This isn't quite accurate (I hadn't heard anything about this, and so I googled; I'm glad you mentioned it; it was interesting reading!). It wasn't thousands, it was a little under 1200. And it turns out the audit was pretty riddled with mistakes:

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2013/05/3...welfare-audit/

Highly recommend the article- it also notes that the audit only gave about ten percent of the cases over for review and of those, only 17 cases ended up to be actual fraud. But the state took action against those deemed to be actually committing fraud, which is a good thing.

But the theme of this thread was about permanent disability, which isn't the same thing as welfare. And, on that note, I have a pretty hilarious article from Gawker:

http://gawker.com/workers-comp-scam-...-the-511199060

I can see the argument that spinning the Big Wheel twice is not the same as eight hours of lifting trays full of the US mail. But seriously, how stupid do you have to be to think that going on The Price is Right while you are on workman's comp is a good idea? Yeesh.

Mind you, this isn't federal permanent disability; this is workman's comp, where I think there is a LOT more fraud. Well, looks like she's going to have plenty of time to rest that bad shoulder when she gets sentenced.

[Danzig]

i saw that earlier, about the stupid woman going on price is right. workers comp injuries average just over $25k per claim. i'm sure that number will rise, as people continue to abuse that system while jobs are so difficult to find and keep. and you can always manage to find a doctor that will say you're in pain-how do you prove someone doesn't have pain?? so backs, shoulders, etc get used as an excuse.
i love when people defrauding wc get caught. or anyone committing fraud for that matter.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i saw that earlier, about the stupid woman going on price is right. workers comp injuries average just over $25k per claim. i'm sure that number will rise, as people continue to abuse that system while jobs are so difficult to find and keep. and you can always manage to find a doctor that will say you're in pain-how do you prove someone doesn't have pain?? so backs, shoulders, etc get used as an excuse.
i love when people defrauding wc get caught. or anyone committing fraud for that matter.

I agree. There was a big scandal here in NY about Long Island Rail Road workers claiming disability- the article linked here said in 2004 97 percent of retirees over 50 applied for and got disability:

http://gothamist.com/2011/10/27/10_a...r_disabili.php

Ridonkulous. Several have been sentenced, and it looks like more will be spending time in the big house. Apparently only 3 doctors processed 86 percent of the claims. So incredibly blatant.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i saw that earlier, about the stupid woman going on price is right. workers comp injuries average just over $25k per claim. i'm sure that number will rise, as people continue to abuse that system while jobs are so difficult to find and keep. and you can always manage to find a doctor that will say you're in pain-how do you prove someone doesn't have pain?? so backs, shoulders, etc get used as an excuse.
i love when people defrauding wc get caught. or anyone committing fraud for that matter.

It would be nice if insurance companies aggressively pursued fraud but they don't, at least not in IL. Self-insured companies still might take a closer look at claimants but they too have turned to settlement as their best defense to fraudulent/malingering claims.

Hell, you used to be able to make a living busting frauds.

What's sad is the cost of anticipated fraud has already been figured out by some actuary and passed on to every purchaser of workcomp insurance. A big reason why its cost is so high.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

What's sad is the cost of anticipated fraud has already been figured out by some actuary and passed on to every purchaser of workcomp insurance. A big reason why its cost is so high.

Kind of like the U.S. and State government's handling of fraud concerning welfare, unemployment, SSI, food stamps, student loans, FHA loans, etc. etc. being a big reason our deficit is so high. But then again it's not the fault of the individual anymore it's the fault of society.

Especially the part of society that considers themselves Patriots.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

Kind of like the U.S. and State government's handling of fraud concerning welfare, unemployment, SSI, food stamps, student loans, FHA loans, etc. etc. being a big reason our deficit is so high.

Uh, yeah... no.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

Kind of like the U.S. and State government's handling of fraud concerning welfare, unemployment, SSI, food stamps, student loans, FHA loans, etc. etc. being a big reason our deficit is so high. But then again it's not the fault of the individual anymore it's the fault of society.

Especially the part of society that considers themselves Patriots.

You add all that fraud together for a year and it probably doesn't fund the war effort for a day.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by jms62

You add all that fraud together for a year and it probably doesn't fund the war effort for a day.

You'd be shocked.

In a 2011 article, Forbes reported, "The best estimate of the cost of the 185 federal means tested welfare programs for 2010 for the federal government alone is nearly $700 billion. Counting state spending, total welfare spending for 2010 reached nearly $900 billion.

A 10% fraud rate it puts the cost/loss at $90 billion per year.

By your assumption the cost of war is $32.8 TRILLION/year.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

You'd be shocked.



A 10% fraud rate it puts the cost/loss at $90 billion per year.

By your assumption the cost of war is $32.8 TRILLION/year.

You showed me.. I guess the war isn't the issue

http://costofwar.com/

[dellinger63]

According to a Congressional Budget Office (CBO) report published in October 2007, the U.S. wars in Iraq and Afghanistan could cost taxpayers a total of $2.4 trillion dollars by 2017 when counting the huge interest costs because combat is being financed with borrowed money. The CBO estimated that of the $2.4 trillion long-term price tag for the war, about $1.9 trillion of that would be spent on Iraq, or $6,300 per U.S. citizen.

So $2.4 trillion over 10 years, 240 billion a year or 657 million a day and that includes interest.

Welfare spending if it should remain the same (fat chance) would come to $9trillion over the same period of time WITHOUT INTEREST included.

So before we again go into the 'war' zone let's realize we spend 5 times as much on welfare programs.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by jms62

You showed me.. I guess the war isn't the issue

http://costofwar.com/

I'll go by CBO numbers over costofwar.com, but keep trying. Wonder what buygold.com has to say about gold as an investment? LMAO