2013-2014 NBA Season

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Duvalier

I'm not watching the game but Isaiah Thomas is lighting somebody up on the Thunder...27 at the half.

Yeah, it was mostly Reggie. Brooks put Thabo on him in the 3Q and Thomas scored 2 points. But Reggie is a good defender, Chuck says so.

By the way, by these advance stats, Fisher is also a good defender. He was average 10 years ago, he stinks now.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

38 minutes a game would be 4th in the league. Westbrook never has averaged more than 35 min a game in any season.

32 min a game is a big jump for a guy that has never played more than 14 a game.

Collison is averaging 33.5 min a game sine Paul went down however regardless of unpleasant the option of playing Fischer at PG the Clippers dont even have a 3rd PG that can trump that extremely low bar.

Do you know why Westbrook averaged 35 minutes a game the last few years? It would be because he and KD often didn't play entire 4Q due to blowouts. The Thunder had A LOT of blowouts the last couple years. In competitive games, they played 40+ most of the time.

By the way, Reggie was pretty dreadful again tonight, on both ends of the floor.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Your assertions are silly. He is playing against the other teams best players not the backups now. We are talking about a guy with 15 NBA starts. In case you hadn't noticed that Durant guy is taking an awful lot of shots lately.

This isnt high school. He is playing in higher leverage situations now and the last thing you want is him to press for better numbers especially considering that Derrick Fischer is your only other option.

This idea that you have that Jackson's play since starting has somehow cost him money 2 years from now is bizarre. Believe me he is going to get a lot more money that a guy off the bench not named Ginobelli is going to get. Like I said before he is looking at 8 million a year and a starting gig somewhere else.

With the extra playing time he has proven to be in the Brandon Jennings/ Brandon Knight category. Those types of guys are young starters making 8 million plus a year.

Jackson played many minutes against other team's starters. That is so silly, to act like he only ever plays against back ups. He has had some very good games against other teams starters WITH KD and Russ on the floor. That is the difference between making 12-14 million and 6-8 million. At this point, he is showing he isn't really that guy that can do it on his own. Maybe it will change after next year, maybe not.

I never said he wouldn't make 8 million. But if he plays better, as many expected (not you of course, oh mighty seer), he could make plenty more. There was plenty of talk nationally that Reggie was playing himself out of OKC back in December.

If all he ever turns out to be is a Brandon Knight or Brandon Jennings, he'll be gone. They are overpaid for what they bring, and Presti won't overpay.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

This would be Chucks starting 5...

Reggie Jackson
Jr smith
Melo
Amare
Italian stallion

They would give up 145 points a game, but Chuck would stick with them because they score a lot and have Melo.

You thought Cleveland would win 55 games this year

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Do you know why Westbrook averaged 35 minutes a game the last few years? It would be because he and KD often didn't play entire 4Q due to blowouts. The Thunder had A LOT of blowouts the last couple years. In competitive games, they played 40+ most of the time.

Westbrook averaged 35 minutes a game because that what NBA starters for the most part play. Do you think that other teams dont rest players in blowouts of either side?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Jackson played many minutes against other team's starters. That is so silly, to act like he only ever plays against back ups. He has had some very good games against other teams starters WITH KD and Russ on the floor. That is the difference between making 12-14 million and 6-8 million. At this point, he is showing he isn't really that guy that can do it on his own. Maybe it will change after next year, maybe not.

I never said he wouldn't make 8 million. But if he plays better, as many expected (not you of course, oh mighty seer), he could make plenty more. There was plenty of talk nationally that Reggie was playing himself out of OKC back in December.

If all he ever turns out to be is a Brandon Knight or Brandon Jennings, he'll be gone. They are overpaid for what they bring, and Presti won't overpay.

That backups play a lot against other backups is a pretty basic theory. Didn't you just say that Westbrook sat a lot of 4th quarters out in blowouts? Wouldnt his backup being playing a lot of those blowout minutes? How can it be both?

If you or anyone else thought that Reggie Jackson was worth 12-14 million a year or was going to be worth that there is just no point discussing the topic any further.

Brandon Knight and Brandon Jennings arent worth 8 million a year but Jackson might be worth 14 million? Again outside of being a blind homer who thinks every Thunder 6th man is going to develop into an all star why would anyone think that Jackson would be anything more than what he is?

[RockHardTen1985]

Couple huge games tonight. Hoping my West teams can hold home court tonight against 2 of the best teams in the NBA.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Westbrook averaged 35 minutes a game because that what NBA starters for the most part play. Do you think that other teams dont rest players in blowouts of either side?

That isn't the point. Jackson basically never plays 35 minutes, let alone average 35, at least until very recently. And this is for a team with a backup PG that isn't even really a PG any longer.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

That backups play a lot against other backups is a pretty basic theory. Didn't you just say that Westbrook sat a lot of 4th quarters out in blowouts? Wouldnt his backup being playing a lot of those blowout minutes? How can it be both?

If you or anyone else thought that Reggie Jackson was worth 12-14 million a year or was going to be worth that there is just no point discussing the topic any further.

Brandon Knight and Brandon Jennings arent worth 8 million a year but Jackson might be worth 14 million? Again outside of being a blind homer who thinks every Thunder 6th man is going to develop into an all star why would anyone think that Jackson would be anything more than what he is?

Do you ever actually read anything and try to understand what is being said, or do you just like to spin it to what you want to read. I never said Jackson was worth 12-14 million. I said had he stepped in and played at the same level he did as a bench player, he would have been. It isn't like I was the only person saying that.

He was averaging 13 or 14 a game in backup minutes. Had he played an extra 6-7 minutes a game and raised that to 18 and 6 or 7 assists, his value would have went up. I never said it WOULD happen, but he had certainly played well enough that it COULD have happened...except of course to you who had him pegged correctly all along, as you are never wrong about anything.

By the way, pretty funny he got torched on D last night. Guess you are wrong once in a while.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Westbrook averaged 35 minutes a game because that what NBA starters for the most part play. Do you think that other teams dont rest players in blowouts of either side?

Of course they do. Do you think many teams had even close to the amount of blowout wins OKC had last year? The point was that Jackson has not played the minutes most expected when Westbrook went down. He hasn't earned them. Brooks has chosen to give some to Fisher. In fact, until the last few games, his minutes basically hadn't changed from when he wasn't starting.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Do you ever actually read anything and try to understand what is being said, or do you just like to spin it to what you want to read. I never said Jackson was worth 12-14 million. I said had he stepped in and played at the same level he did as a bench player, he would have been. It isn't like I was the only person saying that.

He was averaging 13 or 14 a game in backup minutes. Had he played an extra 6-7 minutes a game and raised that to 18 and 6 or 7 assists, his value would have went up. I never said it WOULD happen, but he had certainly played well enough that it COULD have happened...except of course to you who had him pegged correctly all along, as you are never wrong about anything.

By the way, pretty funny he got torched on D last night. Guess you are wrong once in a while.

Your insistence on strictly using your opinion and ignoring the numbers leads me to ask the following questions:
Do you think that Jackson is any good?
Do you think that he is an $5 million a year player at his current level or with just a slight uptick
Do you think he will get an 8 million or so offer after next year if all remains the same (no injuries to him or another key player)
Do you think that he has has the ability to be a $12-$14 million dollar a year player?
If no did you ever?
If yes what makes you think that other than you watch a bunch of OKC games?

By the way while he didn't play particularly good individual defense, 15 of Thomas' 1st half points were scored while Jackson wasn't on the floor.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Your insistence on strictly using your opinion and ignoring the numbers leads me to ask the following questions:
Do you think that Jackson is any good?
Do you think that he is an $5 million a year player at his current level or with just a slight uptick
Do you think he will get an 8 million or so offer after next year if all remains the same (no injuries to him or another key player)
Do you think that he has has the ability to be a $12-$14 million dollar a year player?
If no did you ever?
If yes what makes you think that other than you watch a bunch of OKC games?

By the way while he didn't play particularly good individual defense, 15 of Thomas' 1st half points were scored while Jackson wasn't on the floor.

Nice, typical passive aggressive shot. I've used plenty of numbers, just not ones you like.

I'll humor you and answer, why I have no idea.

Do you think that Jackson is any good? yes, though "any good" is not really much of a question.

Do you think that he is an $5 million a year player at his current level or with just a slight uptick No doubt about it

Do you think he will get an 8 million or so offer after next year if all remains the same (no injuries to him or another key player)Of course he will

Do you think that he has has the ability to be a $12-$14 million dollar a year player? No

If no did you ever? I did not think he was, and have said so often with Thunder fans. But many people did, including national basketball guys that actually follow the game (not guys like Barkley and Shaq). I thought it was possible he could play himself into that range, but not likely.

If yes what makes you think that other than you watch a bunch of OKC games? I watch all the games, usually twice. I find it funny you think you know more about OKC players than I do because you sort some advanced stats.


By the way while he didn't play particularly good individual defense, 15 of Thomas' 1st half points were scored while Jackson wasn't on the floor. And why, exactly, wasn't he on the floor? Because he was getting torched.

[Cannon Shell]

It is pretty clear what Jackson is at this point.
He is a small SG with some PG skills who needs to continue to improve his 3 point shooting. While his sample size is still relatively small he clearly has the physical tools and ability to be a starting level player in the NBA. There are a few guys who are physically the same size and with similar skill sets that are making roughly 8 million a year which is what Jackson will most likely command unless his game just craters or he gets hurt. While he isn't necessarily young for a 3rd year player he surely has more improvement left in him which will probably price him out of the Thunder's ability to pay him and may let him walk if he gets a big offer in restricted free agency. Of course a lot of what OKC does with his contract depends on the status of Westbrook's knee. Who knows if they are spooked maybe they offer him an extention after this year?

Check back on this in 2 years.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Nice, typical passive aggressive shot. I've used plenty of numbers, just not ones you like.

I'll humor you and answer, why I have no idea.

Do you think that Jackson is any good? yes, though "any good" is not really much of a question.

Do you think that he is an $5 million a year player at his current level or with just a slight uptick No doubt about it

Do you think he will get an 8 million or so offer after next year if all remains the same (no injuries to him or another key player)Of course he will

Do you think that he has has the ability to be a $12-$14 million dollar a year player? No

If no did you ever? I did not think he was, and have said so often with Thunder fans. But many people did, including national basketball guys that actually follow the game (not guys like Barkley and Shaq). I thought it was possible he could play himself into that range, but not likely.

If yes what makes you think that other than you watch a bunch of OKC games? I watch all the games, usually twice. I find it funny you think you know more about OKC players than I do because you sort some advanced stats.


By the way while he didn't play particularly good individual defense, 15 of Thomas' 1st half points were scored while Jackson wasn't on the floor. And why, exactly, wasn't he on the floor? Because he was getting torched.

Please name one guy who anyone has remotely heard of that thought Jackson was possibly a 12-14 million dollar a year player? He was a 23% 3 point shooter coming into this year and he is 6'3". This was never the 2nd coming of Harden and I don't know anyone and never read anywhere that thought that.

Guys who play 32 minutes a game play 8 minutes a quarter.

[Duvalier]

I saw where the Wizards may look to get Greg Monroe, acquiring him would pretty much lock up the 3 seed in the East for Washington.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Duvalier

I saw where the Wizards may look to get Greg Monroe, acquiring him would pretty much lock up the 3 seed in the East for Washington.

I saw that and thought who or what do they possibly have that would interest Detroit? They already traded their 1st rd pick this year, cant trade next years and don't really seem to have any players or combination of players that could make that deal happen. I suppose maybe they can get a third team involved?

I have no idea if they could do it or not but Otto Porter to Phoenix, Phoenix sends Channing Frye and the 1st rounder they got in the Gortat trade to Detroit, Det sends Monroe to Wash?

[King Glorious]

For whatever it's worth, there are currently eight teams playing .600 or better. Here are the records against each other:

Portland 8-3 +2.5ppg
OKC 8-4 +7.3
Indiana 6-3 +5.1
Miami 3-2 -1.2
Houston 6-6 -3.5
LA 5-7 +0.5
SA 3-8 -5.7
GS 3-9 -4.7

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

For whatever it's worth, there are currently eight teams playing .600 or better. Here are the records against each other:

Portland 8-3 +2.5ppg
OKC 8-4 +7.3
Indiana 6-3 +5.1
Miami 3-2 -1.2
Houston 6-6 -3.5
LA 5-7 +0.5
SA 3-8 -5.7
GS 3-9 -4.7

I mentioned the few big games yesterday. Houston was impressive. Disapointed yet again with Golden St. I should also clarify something from last week. I think Indiana is a great team. I think they would win the West if they were in that conference. I prefer Miami because I do believe they have the ability to turn it on, turn it up play great D and be better then Indiana. Plus they have a few wild cards this year with Oden and Beasley. Former #1 and #2 overall picks. But as of now, Indiana is the much better team. Miami has to improve and they have to be able to flip that switch, or they are in big trouble. As for the above stats, the Clippers and Spurs are most telling IMO. I feel like the Clippers dont play good against good teams. This stat kind of confirms that. I feel like San Antonio is a horrible matchup for certain teams like Golden St, Houston and OKC. That stat proves that also.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Guys who play 32 minutes a game play 8 minutes a quarter.

Well no **** Chuck.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

I feel like San Antonio is a horrible matchup for certain teams like Golden St, Houston and OKC. That stat proves that also.

San Antonio is a horrible match up for OKC? What exactly points to that? Is it OKC winning 8 of the last 10 head to head that makes you think that, including 2-0 this year with a thrashing in SA?