Derby Wars???

[wac]

does anyone on here do these tournaments? Just looking at it, looks kinda fun but is it worth the time/money? if you pick enough winners to win a contest couldn't you make more money by betting on your picks? Just wondering as it at least looks interesting and by only spending $30 to play would probably be cheaper then actually betting on each race. thoughts?

[Kasept]

Fantini should answer this. He said on ATR Friday he's made perhaps $40k on Derby Wars this past year.

[Benny]

Yes and no.Its mostly picking longshots most of the time. It can be a cheap day ifyou usually donate, so the competition can be fun,There are other places too like HorseTourneys, Twinspires, etc. Suggest you play for points at DW to get your feet wet. More sharp players on weekends and big $$ tourneys

[outofthebox]

I hate Derby Wars...Seriously living in La. probably keeping me from being addicted to Derby Wars.

[tanner12oz]

I played at 123bet and thought it was fun. Buyins were small and prizes seemed fair in comparison to people in contests

[letswastemoney]

If you're confident you can consistently reach $70 to $90 in a 6 to 8 race span in $2 WP tournaments, I think you should do well on there.

Its a good concept but I am not a fan of the limited formats and the token system. It has great potential similar to that of Fan Duel and Draft Kings.
Great for people who live in a state where they cant bet online.

[Arletta]

Originally Posted by helicopter11

Its a good concept but I am not a fan of the limited formats and the token system. It has great potential similar to that of Fan Duel and Draft Kings.
Great for people who live in a state where they cant bet online.

I am sure Texas will figure out a way to make it illegal as well.

Originally Posted by Arletta

I am sure Texas will figure out a way to make it illegal as well.

For sure

[fantini33]

Originally Posted by wac

does anyone on here do these tournaments? Just looking at it, looks kinda fun but is it worth the time/money? if you pick enough winners to win a contest couldn't you make more money by betting on your picks? Just wondering as it at least looks interesting and by only spending $30 to play would probably be cheaper then actually betting on each race. thoughts?

I actually play in the DerbyWars contests on a very regular basis. It is extremely fun and IMO worth the money. (10%-12% takeout depending on the game)(A takeout you can typically eliminate altogether by winning entries into bigger events...or if a tournament doesn't fill to capacity and still runs) You kind of touched on what is an incredibly important point. Most people will try and play every race on a card, which, in the long run is a recipe for disaster. Action bets will burn more bankroll than you think. I was always guilty of this. Sometimes playing pick 4's is like a crack habit...you just cant help yourself. By playing in contests ALONG with everyday betting I have been able to easily simplify my wagering by focusing on races or sequences I truly like and not playing them all. My ACTION comes in the tournaments so that I have an interest in each and every race on a given card.

[fantini33]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Fantini should answer this. He said on ATR Friday he's made perhaps $40k on Derby Wars this past year.

After speaking with you on Friday I actually went back and looked at my deposit history vs. withdrawl history and the net was just over 35K. This does not include 2 NHC spots which carry a rough value of 8k each.

My guess was not very far off.

[fantini33]

Originally Posted by Benny

Yes and no.Its mostly picking longshots most of the time. It can be a cheap day ifyou usually donate, so the competition can be fun,There are other places too like HorseTourneys, Twinspires, etc. Suggest you play for points at DW to get your feet wet. More sharp players on weekends and big $$ tourneys

The number of entrants in a given tournament likely dictates the price range on horses you may need to compete. 6 man games you may need just a few midpriced winners. 9 man games a few more. I am on the fair/poor side of coming up with bombs and have done just fine. Looking out in advance of races approaching often will provide you with clues as to when you may need to roll the dice. The style changes throughout a game based on remaining races available and your proximity to the top of the leaderboard. The "game within the game" is the part I find most enjoyable.

DerbyWars has sharp players 7 days a week because they offer $2000 nine entrants winner take all games practically every day. $250 entry. I have played in midweek games that had 5 of the top 10 ranked tour players involved. Yikes! The weekend games offer higher payouts but the field sizes are of course much greater.

[fantini33]

Originally Posted by outofthebox

I hate Derby Wars...Seriously living in La. probably keeping me from being addicted to Derby Wars.

It can be addicting.

[fantini33]

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

If you're confident you can consistently reach $70 to $90 in a 6 to 8 race span in $2 WP tournaments, I think you should do well on there.

In the typical 100 man Saturday tournament (13-15 races) 2x your money is easily enough to be in contention nearing the final races. (ie..in a 15 race tourney having $80 in contest winning with 5 races to go is USUALLY a nice spot to be.) In the 9 man games or 30 man games that number comes back lower, something like 1.5x your wagers.

[fantini33]

Originally Posted by helicopter11

Its a good concept but I am not a fan of the limited formats and the token system. It has great potential similar to that of Fan Duel and Draft Kings.
Great for people who live in a state where they cant bet online.

I agree about the limited formats and it is something that I think Mark is possibly working on. Maybe some "optional race" tournaments. Some "on site" events. The bracket challenges are certainly unique.

IMO the "token" system is a giant

I would never pay $235 to play in a 100 person Saturday event. Or $375 to play in a 30 person high stakes Sunday game. And most importantly...$875 to play in a 30 person NHC qualifier.

DerbyWars has opportunities all week long to win tokens for such events, in games of multiple sizes and buy in amounts, and at lots of different tracks.

The $47 9 person games where you win a $375 token is a great deal. First off, they will run these even with only 7 entrants, meaning there is actually a negative takeout. If you can get one in under 7 tries ($47 x 7 = $329) you practically eliminate the takeout yourself. I have been fortunate enough to typically get one in the first 4 or 5 tries meaning that those Sunday contests yield a positive financial expectation for me in the long run. That's the idea anyway.

As far as NHC spots goes. They run $47 24 player contests which yields 1 $875 token. That gets you into a 30 player qualifier where top 2 make it to Vegas. Most qualifying sites they will take like 1 of 65 entrants. I realize that mathematically your overall chance to qualify may be better going the big game way, but I feel as though my practical chances are improved by having to fare well in 2 smaller sized tournaments as opposed to 1 large tournament. Not quite so overwhelming.

[fantini33]

Originally Posted by helicopter11

Its a good concept but I am not a fan of the limited formats and the token system. It has great potential similar to that of Fan Duel and Draft Kings.
Great for people who live in a state where they cant bet online.

I agree that it has similar potential to sports fantasy sites. If anything, it seems to be the best way at this point to draw new players to the game we all love, which is desperately in need of new players.

Derbywars has live Wednesday night and 100k game webcasts which are fun to be a part of as well as constant write-ups and articles on players and tournaments at Horseracingnation. These are nice touches in an effort to get a new generation to become involved.

[fantini33]

I apologize if I have put some people to sleep with my responses.

[senator L]

Appreciate you sharing your knowledge

Do you think it would be easier to win on Horse Tourneys
or are they the same level of handicapper?

[fantini33]

You will find a lot of the same players on both sites. Lots of really sharp players, lots of intermediate players, some newcomers. If you have good opinions you will be fine at either place. The other sites seem to have more big contests which require you to submit all picks ahead of time, while Derbywars offers more play as you go type games. (IMO there are pros and cons to both) Derbywars offers the most $$$ games of the sites (I'm 90% sure of this) Horsetourneys offers more NHC spots throughout the year. I think Derbywars only awarded 11 spots this year as opposed to over a hundred at some sites. I would expect that number to grow significantly for the 2016 NHC.

I have enjoyed the majority of my success at Derbywars but I would like to think that is mainly because I focus most of my play there, not that another site may be more difficult to win at.

[senator L]

Thanks Ed! What would be the best way to rate one's level
of skill? Money, wins and how much would you equate betting
in terms of your handicapping skill (they seem to co-relate)
sorry not the greatest with words lol