NHC - Finals

[senator L]

Congratulations to the DT'ers who made it and competed
in Las Vegas in the NHC finals, that in-itself is an incredible feat

It amazed me how good these guys and gals are coming up
with picks race after race after race. I get tired just thinking about it.
The winner said he used a software program. I don't know if it was his own
or something out in the public but he seemed confident in the numbers and
it showed up in the win column.

I saw an interview on DRF Live with Jonathon Kinchen, he was saying he got
up at 4 am to start handicapping...makes me believe in the saying "the harder
I work, the luckier I get."

Thanks again to Steve and all the DT'ers who share their
knowledge and passion

[mclem0822]

Originally Posted by senator L

Congratulations to the DT'ers who made it and competed
in Las Vegas in the NHC finals, that in-itself is an incredible feat

It amazed me how good these guys and gals are coming up
with picks race after race after race. I get tired just thinking about it.
The winner said he used a software program. I don't know if it was his own
or something out in the public but he seemed confident in the numbers and
it showed up in the win column.

I saw an interview on DRF Live with Jonathon Kinchen, he was saying he got
up at 4 am to start handicapping...makes me believe in the saying "the harder
I work, the luckier I get."

Thanks again to Steve and all the DT'ers who share their
knowledge and passion

Well said, congrats to one and all!

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by senator L

Congratulations to the DT'ers who made it and competed
in Las Vegas in the NHC finals, that in-itself is an incredible feat

It amazed me how good these guys and gals are coming up
with picks race after race after race. I get tired just thinking about it.
The winner said he used a software program. I don't know if it was his own
or something out in the public but he seemed confident in the numbers and
it showed up in the win column.

I saw an interview on DRF Live with Jonathon Kinchen, he was saying he got
up at 4 am to start handicapping...makes me believe in the saying "the harder
I work, the luckier I get."

Thanks again to Steve and all the DT'ers who share their
knowledge and passion

I was in the Horseplayers Qualify NHC tourney in South Dakota a few years back and noticed a fair amount of people (a number of whom finished in the top 150 this weekend) using a program - if forget the name of it, but it had an ancient GUI (looked like it was written in Virtual BASIC) and the monthly subscription was-off-the-charts expensive. In addition to the basics, I think it accurately measures velocity, rather than speed, from the gate. Again, maybe some of the more seasoned tourney players know what it is, but outside of national tournaments, I've never seen it. And certainly have never seen anyone at the track or OTB using it.

[casp0555]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

I was in the Horseplayers Qualify NHC tourney in South Dakota a few years back and noticed a fair amount of people (a number of whom finished in the top 150 this weekend) using a program - if forget the name of it, but it had an ancient GUI (looked like it was written in Virtual BASIC) and the monthly subscription was-off-the-charts expensive. In addition to the basics, I think it accurately measures velocity, rather than speed, from the gate. Again, maybe some of the more seasoned tourney players know what it is, but outside of national tournaments, I've never seen it. And certainly have never seen anyone at the track or OTB using it.

I did see a couple of laptop screens with a program similar to what you are referring. May not be what your talking about but it looked almost like a personal program because of the graphics or lack of.
A great experience for me and was able to meet and cap with some really nice people, a really nice group of guys at our table. I can only hope to Experience this event again in the future.

[declansharbor]

Originally Posted by casp0555

I did see a couple of laptop screens with a program similar to what you are referring. May not be what your talking about but it looked almost like a personal program because of the graphics or lack of.
A great experience for me and was able to meet and cap with some really nice people, a really nice group of guys at our table. I can only hope to Experience this event again in the future.

Did you or any other DT 'firsters', at anytime prior to or during the contest, feel overwhelmed?


Just getting into that ballroom is a significant feat, one that separates you from 99.99% of fellow horseplayers. Congrats on getting there, now you know firsthand what it takes to hoist that check at the end.

[billr21]

The one thing I can say is all the guys and gals who make this tournament are, to a person, enjoyable to be around. Although I didn't do well I was at a table of Monmouth park guys and former MPers, who pulled hard for everyone there. You would never know Ken Jordan was at the top or near the top of anything let alone an $800K win. He was gracious throughout(finished 2nd($250K). Hope I get back there again. Bill

[jms62]

Originally Posted by declansharbor

Did you or any other DT 'firsters', at anytime prior to or during the contest, feel overwhelmed?


Just getting into that ballroom is a significant feat, one that separates you from 99.99% of fellow horseplayers. Congrats on getting there, now you know firsthand what it takes to hoist that check at the end.

I felt overwhelmed Thursday late I had handicapped all the races and had some notes but then I got almost a writers block trying to pick my Optionals. I never played optionals before and didnt know where to start in putting together my list. It cost me the final 50 as I bypassed 2 on Friday where I had the winner and total WP payouts were in the upper 20's. I burned all my optionals looking for cap horses. This won't happen again if I am fortunate enough to get another crack.

[NTamm1215]

Great meeting JMS and Pointman and catching up a bit with tourney stalwart Paul Weizer. Was also special to have Steve Byk there.

I was not in the final 50 and lost a few photos that made things tougher. But, I did have the good fortune of spending the weekend with Jonathon Kinchen, who had ironically been by my side during the BCBC. He is business partners with someone I went to high school with, and his performance only enhanced the weekend. Without getting into great detail, he broke the new system in a way by having two entries finish in the top ten. I'm hopeful that the rule which kept him from having those two at the final table is re-addressed moving forward, as a great argument can be made that he was forced, through no fault of his own, to surrender 25k. It did not take away from his accomplishment in the least when all was said and done.

Hope to make it back and see many of you there in 2016!

[casp0555]

Originally Posted by declansharbor

Did you or any other DT 'firsters', at anytime prior to or during the contest, feel overwhelmed?


Just getting into that ballroom is a significant feat, one that separates you from 99.99% of fellow horseplayers. Congrats on getting there, now you know firsthand what it takes to hoist that check at the end.

Definitely....there were so many races to look at and my lack of experience with contest play fueled the feeling of being overwhelmed. Friday I felt short of breath all afternoon, but I was at a table with a great group of guys and one fellow Houston resident. There was excitement at catching a couple of place horses that paid well that got nosed out at the wire. Lots of fun..I got to meet Pointman, JMS, and of course Steve. I did not see NTamm until late Sunday and he looked busy..maybe next time Nick.
Jim...thanks for the advice..i'll get it down to three hope everyone made/makes it home okay, spent 12 hours in airports/planes yesterday to get back to 70 degree Houston due to a canceled 3 hr flight...only neg on this trip

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

congrats to all of you it is my goal this year to qualify for both the nhc and the bc tourneys

[dpkovalesky]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

I was in the Horseplayers Qualify NHC tourney in South Dakota a few years back and noticed a fair amount of people (a number of whom finished in the top 150 this weekend) using a program - if forget the name of it, but it had an ancient GUI (looked like it was written in Virtual BASIC) and the monthly subscription was-off-the-charts expensive. In addition to the basics, I think it accurately measures velocity, rather than speed, from the gate. Again, maybe some of the more seasoned tourney players know what it is, but outside of national tournaments, I've never seen it. And certainly have never seen anyone at the track or OTB using it.

Just thought I would try to share a little info on those computer programs as VolJack and I have been talking about it too. A lot of people use something called HTR ( which is the black screen with bright green type old school DOS style programming that you are referring to). From what I understand it starts out as an aid but quickly becomes a crutch and doesn't take basic handicapping ideas like jockey switches into account But also know quite a few people who use it strictly for pedigrees, trying to find angles there.

I try to take something away from each time I qualify, my advice to newer players for the NHC event is to either play in (if you want to pony up the $500) or sit in the room on thursday during the last chance and handicap or just play some cash. I played in the last chance for the first time this year and really believe it helps you get a feel for dealing with the emotion in the room when a big price comes home that you might have and knowing how to move on from it.

the DT contingent will continue to grow at this event and a winner will be on here in the new few years I'm sure!

[pweizer]

Originally Posted by dpkovalesky

Just thought I would try to share a little info on those computer programs as VolJack and I have been talking about it too. A lot of people use something called HTR ( which is the black screen with bright green type old school DOS style programming that you are referring to). From what I understand it starts out as an aid but quickly becomes a crutch and doesn't take basic handicapping ideas like jockey switches into account But also know quite a few people who use it strictly for pedigrees, trying to find angles there.

I try to take something away from each time I qualify, my advice to newer players for the NHC event is to either play in (if you want to pony up the $500) or sit in the room on thursday during the last chance and handicap or just play some cash. I played in the last chance for the first time this year and really believe it helps you get a feel for dealing with the emotion in the room when a big price comes home that you might have and knowing how to move on from it.

the DT contingent will continue to grow at this event and a winner will be on here in the new few years I'm sure!

This is interesting. I would suggest the opposite. Playing the last chance just takes your focus away from what is really important, namely working on the Friday and Saturday races. If I could give one piece of advice it would be to start handicapping as early as possible so the night prior is far less stressful. There is also no rule that says you must handicap every race. I never look at Golden Gate other than a mandatory race. The overload comes from trying to cram too much into short of a period of time. Planning is key.

Finally, never worry about what anyone else has at nearly any point in the contest but the very end. Long shots will come in and some people will have them. This really has no impact on you. People tend to panic and reach way too early. The score needed to make the cut and to win is always pretty consistent. Last year, roughly $180 got you to day three. This year was a bit lower. But, I feel very certain that if I get to $180 next year, I will be playing on Sunday. Tune everyone else out and just focus on your own game.

Paul

[Benny]

Originally Posted by pweizer

This is interesting. I would suggest the opposite. Playing the last chance just takes your focus away from what is really important, namely working on the Friday and Saturday races. If I could give one piece of advice it would be to start handicapping as early as possible so the night prior is far less stressful. There is also no rule that says you must handicap every race. I never look at Golden Gate other than a mandatory race. The overload comes from trying to cram too much into short of a period of time. Planning is key.

Finally, never worry about what anyone else has at nearly any point in the contest but the very end. Long shots will come in and some people will have them. This really has no impact on you. People tend to panic and reach way too early. The score needed to make the cut and to win is always pretty consistent. Last year, roughly $180 got you to day three. This year was a bit lower. But, I feel very certain that if I get to $180 next year, I will be playing on Sunday. Tune everyone else out and just focus on your own game.

Paul

- well said. Players also would be wise to play in a couple of live events too before attempting the big show. online is fine to qualify, but doesnot prepare you for the big event.

[NTamm1215]

Personally, I would never play in the Last Chance tournament, but I do agree with Dan's sentiment on the ballroom. I avoided sitting in the main ballroom for the very reasons Dan stated. It's crowded, loud and dealing with people going nuts for each race can be somewhat mentally taxing.

Whether you've qualified online or at a live site, nothing is going to prepare you for the NHC. It's unique and much more challenging than any other handicapping tournament.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by dpkovalesky

Just thought I would try to share a little info on those computer programs as VolJack and I have been talking about it too. A lot of people use something called HTR ( which is the black screen with bright green type old school DOS style programming that you are referring to). ...

That's exactly it - Thanks Dan

[HoosierInOhio]

Originally Posted by dpkovalesky

Just thought I would try to share a little info on those computer programs as VolJack and I have been talking about it too. A lot of people use something called HTR ( which is the black screen with bright green type old school DOS style programming that you are referring to). From what I understand it starts out as an aid but quickly becomes a crutch and doesn't take basic handicapping ideas like jockey switches into account But also know quite a few people who use it strictly for pedigrees, trying to find angles there.

Actually, its quite a bit more than you have described. And you can actually change the screen color to whatever you prefer. Mine is white with black font.

At any rate, I believe you can go to the website and check out the software for free or download the HTR-pedia which describes a lot of the terms and angles and stuff.

I've been using it for 9 months now, and it was very difficult to go from my traditional "Go over the PP's for hours and handicap". At first, I was doing both (PPs and HTR). Then I started doing more HTR and less PP, maybe writing some HTR stuff on my PPs. Now I pretty much just use the software, and print stuff straight out of there.

One of the best features, for tournaments with optional races at least, is the race rating called the VI (Volatility Index). Each race is given a rating from 50 (Very Chalky), down to 15 (Bombs Away). This rating can change once horses scratch. So maybe it was a 27 (Mixed), and 3 horses scratch and it becomes a 34 (Chalky). So when doing an optional contest, you can just look at each race's VI index and start there. So, if I had made the NHC, I probably would have took the 12-15 optional races each day with the lowest VI and looked only at those (at least to start).

I play the Santa Anita low roller contest when I go, and you can only play 5 races on the card. I basically take the 5 races with the lowest VI and that's it. It can save a lot of time.

In fact, the two greatest things about it is the time it saves and that it can point you to horses you may not consider. You can also query a ton of stuff from the files you have like how many 8/1 or greater horses hit in turf sprints at certain tracks, and what do they have in common.

Anyway, you guys can check it out for yourself on the site or PM me if you want some more details. I believe their forums are open as well (meaning you don't need to be a member to read them at least.)

[jms62]

Originally Posted by HoosierInOhio

Actually, its quite a bit more than you have described. And you can actually change the screen color to whatever you prefer. Mine is white with black font.

At any rate, I believe you can go to the website and check out the software for free or download the HTR-pedia which describes a lot of the terms and angles and stuff.

I've been using it for 9 months now, and it was very difficult to go from my traditional "Go over the PP's for hours and handicap". At first, I was doing both (PPs and HTR). Then I started doing more HTR and less PP, maybe writing some HTR stuff on my PPs. Now I pretty much just use the software, and print stuff straight out of there.

One of the best features, for tournaments with optional races at least, is the race rating called the VI (Volatility Index). Each race is given a rating from 50 (Very Chalky), down to 15 (Bombs Away). This rating can change once horses scratch. So maybe it was a 27 (Mixed), and 3 horses scratch and it becomes a 34 (Chalky). So when doing an optional contest, you can just look at each race's VI index and start there. So, if I had made the NHC, I probably would have took the 12-15 optional races each day with the lowest VI and looked only at those (at least to start).

I play the Santa Anita low roller contest when I go, and you can only play 5 races on the card. I basically take the 5 races with the lowest VI and that's it. It can save a lot of time.

In fact, the two greatest things about it is the time it saves and that it can point you to horses you may not consider. You can also query a ton of stuff from the files you have like how many 8/1 or greater horses hit in turf sprints at certain tracks, and what do they have in common.

Anyway, you guys can check it out for yourself on the site or PM me if you want some more details. I believe their forums are open as well (meaning you don't need to be a member to read them at least.)

Is it giving you results too or do you have to manually enter? Thing is how many people in the contest are using the tool exactly the same as you. You need to differentiate yourself in a large tourney, use the tool sometimes and take shots other times and even choose a horse that the tool feels is 3rd or 4th best to catch a price.

[HoosierInOhio]

Originally Posted by jms62

Is it giving you results too or do you have to manually enter? Thing is how many people in the contest are using the tool exactly the same as you. You need to differentiate yourself in a large tourney, use the tool sometimes and take shots other times and even choose a horse that the tool feels is 3rd or 4th best to catch a price.

You download race files daily (or whatever frequency you like). That is what you actually pay monthly for, the race files. The software is free (but useless without the race files). I download files daily for the most part. One dump gets you all the tracks. Results are usually out a few hours after the races end. The face files are available about 24 hours before the races. Although for big events (BC, NHC, KY), they sometimes come out 36 hours in advance

Some members even take the race files into Access and build their own databases to query and research. I haven't done that yet.

[pweizer]

Originally Posted by jms62

Is it giving you results too or do you have to manually enter? Thing is how many people in the contest are using the tool exactly the same as you. You need to differentiate yourself in a large tourney, use the tool sometimes and take shots other times and even choose a horse that the tool feels is 3rd or 4th best to catch a price.

I really think you are overthinking things here. Do not worry about what others do or use. You obviously know what you are doing or you wouldn't have been in the room. Focus on what you do well, set a goal in terms of number of points historically needed for the contest, and don't panic if things don't go according to plan. It is a marathon, not a sprint.

Paul

[pointman]

I can't say enough about the experience I had this past weekend. First, it was a pleasure to meet jms, NTamm, Casp, utbighair and Fantini. I had the good fortune to randomly pick a seat next to Fantini and spend the contest with him at a table of a bunch of seasoned players who could not have been better people to play the contest with.

I feel that I learned a lot of lessons this past weekend and would certainly take a different approach if I am fortunate enough to make it back here next year or another time. The amount of races is overwhelming and I certainly would have to start capping a bit earlier than I did. Looking at many of the comments I can say I agree with a lot that has been said by the other people who were here.

I can't say enough about what utbighair accomplished this past weekend getting two entries in the top 10. To top it off, the donation to TRF on behalf of Ron Rippey exhibited an incredible amount of class.