knicks/nuggets brawl

[Danzig]

just read the story, and saw video on espn. it's a shame that someone is going to foul a guy because he didn't want him to do a layup....knicks lost control because they were losing at home and accused the nuggets of 'running up the score'. but this is what i don't care for:

"They were having their way with us," Knicks coach Isiah Thomas said. "I think J.R. Smith had just made one dunk when he reversed and spun in the air. And I think Mardy didn't want our home crowd to see that again. So he fouled him."

coach has no reason to excuse his players' actions. especially when he grabbed another guy around the neck and pushed him down. coach should get a tougher fine/punishment than anyone other than the player who fouled initially. is this the type of mentality he is encouraging? obviously, no one wants to lose at home-or be embarrassed at home. you don't want to lose by 20, so you blatanly foul a guy? ridiculous! complete lack of control by all involved.

[saucon17]

Isiah Thomas has totally destroyed this once proud Knicks Organization.
J.R. Smith had the right to be pissed and to be beat the sh*t out of
Mardy Collins. If you didn't Smith to dunk again, Collins should just
hacked him or even just grab him around his waist. Instead this dumbass
horse collared him around his neck. He could seriously hurt Smith's neck
by grabbing him and pulling him back. Collins if you don't want your Knicks
to be embarrassed, then start playing better basketball.

[Danzig]

Collins if you don't want your Knicks
to be embarrassed, then start playing better basketball.


---i agree with that. you don't want them to win by more than 20, stop them. but don't resort to foulling someone. what if that guy had suffered an injury? it's ridiculous. i have a ton more problems with actions like this than i do with too much 'celebration' when you do well. this is unsportsmanlike, akin with to spitting in that guys face. these guys are supposed to be adults, the cream of the crop. you don't stoop to these levels because you're losing!

Both teams are guilty. It was a dick move by the Nuggets coach to leave the starters in the game and it was a bonehead move for the hard foul. Of course you're not dealing with rocket scientists.

[Danzig]

i don't see pulling your starters as necessary. guys earned a starting spot, if they want to play, let them play. this is't little league here. guys want stats, etc.
whatever happens, no one has the right to foul someone because they didn't want them to do a layup.

Originally Posted by Danzig188

i don't see pulling your starters as necessary. guys earned a starting spot, if they want to play, let them play. this is't little league here. guys want stats, etc.
whatever happens, no one has the right to foul someone because they didn't want them to do a layup.

It's called sportsmanship. And it's severely lacking in the new and improved thug life, it's all about me NBA.

[Danzig]

i guess on a scale of sportsmanship, i'd rank leaving starters in far below an admitted blatant foul to keep another layup in front of the home crowd from occurring.

[saucon17]

You have a shot clock, so you can't be holding the ball until
the game is over. If you think the Nuggets are going to let
the shot clock run out and not try to score is crazy. Basketball
is a stats happy sport

[Danzig]

they should have knelt...lol let the clock run down. ridiculous, and the players are pointing the fingers at others for making them act poorly. take some responsibility! just like t.o., that guy got in my face and made me spit in his!!

Originally Posted by saucon17

You have a shot clock, so you can't be holding the ball until
the game is over. If you think the Nuggets are going to let
the shot clock run out and not try to score is crazy. Basketball
is a stats happy sport

Less than 2 minutes to go with a 19 point lead. Showing off by dunking on the Knicks homecourt and leaving the starters in the game. Not only is it a sign of bad sportsmanship, it's also idiotic to leave your stars in a game that's already decided due to the risk of injury.

Am I the only one in this thread who has played organized sports?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Less than 2 minutes to go with a 19 point lead. Showing off by dunking on the Knicks homecourt and leaving the starters in the game. Not only is it a sign of bad sportsmanship, it's also idiotic to leave your stars in a game that's already decided due to the risk of injury.

Am I the only one in this thread who has played organized sports?

i understand what you're saying. and of course had one of the starters incurred an injury, the coach would get roasted. fact is, one almost did get injured, due to a player foulling him.

[saucon17]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Less than 2 minutes to go with a 19 point lead. Showing off by dunking on the Knicks homecourt and leaving the starters in the game. Not only is it a sign of bad sportsmanship, it's also idiotic to leave your stars in a game that's already decided due to the risk of injury.

Am I the only one in this thread who has played organized sports?

Played for 4 years of football, 3 years of hoops and baseball, until I shattered
my ankle in my 2nd basketball game as a senior in high school, was going
to play Div 3 basketball. Ankle has never been the same since. Currently play
in adult hoops league.

These guys are paid big money to put points on the board. I rather see
stars put points on the board than rather than the guy on the end of the
bench. This would piss me off running up the score in high school
and college sports. Thats were you should sportsmanship and people
learn to show respect.

Originally Posted by saucon17

Played for 4 years of football, 3 years of hoops and baseball, until I shattered
my ankle in my 2nd basketball game as a senior in high school, was going
to play Div 3 basketball. Ankle has never been the same since. Currently play
in adult hoops league.

These guys are paid big money to put points on the board. I rather see
stars put points on the board than rather than the guy on the end of the
bench. This would piss me off running up the score in high school
and college sports. Thats were you should sportsmanship and people
learn to show respect.

I would rather see the bench players on the floor with 1:30 left in a blowout than the stars, especially if I were a fan of the nuggets and carmelo tears his acl on a meaningless dunk.

It's very rare that you see the stars in the game during junk time. Of course it's George Karl we're talking about. He's always been known as a class act.

Originally Posted by Danzig188

i don't know where this is coming from, as you and i have never had any disagreements that i can remember. sorry that i've wronged you somewhere along the line, to cause you to take this tack. thanks for sticking to the subject, rather than allowing posts to become a personal issue with you, and to cause you to fling names, etc. have a nice day.

You're blaming the Knicks more than the Nuggets. It's equal blame and you're flat out wrong and being arrogant about it.

If Karl had put the reserves in this incident wouldn't have happened. If Smith would have pulled up and ran the shot clock this incident wouldn't have happened. BTW most, if not all, NBA teams show a little class and empty the bench in a blowout.

How anyone could not see the Nuggets rubbing it in is beyond me.

[skippy3481]

Zig Just let it roll off of you. I agree with you regardless of what nuggets did, it does not excuse what the knicks did. Like the nuggets dunking is really going to hurt he crowd. After Isiah stopped playing, he became a moron. He was the coach of the pacers here for a while( thank god he's gone) My whole question is if the backups are in and someone winds up for a huge dunk, would the hard foul have been totally wrong or just partly because after all they were up big?

[saucon17]

Pillow, I coach basketball as an asst., the coaches and I try to teach respect
and sportsmanship, but it's hard to do it because these kids watch the
NBA and see what these players act like.

[Samarta]

2 nights in a row, same guy, same situation, and ultimately a flagrant foul. I was just watching ESPN and they said that Isiah had a conversation with Carmello Anthony during a time out about a minute before the fight and he told him not to go near the paint. The Knicks were absolutely responsible for starting and the Nuggets mainly Anthony with his sucker punch were responsible for it escalating. Hell, every one was pretty much apart when Anthony decided to cheap shot the guy and then take off running.

The foul part isn't a surprise at all. While he was one of the best point guards in his era, maybe ever, let's not forget that he was the leader of the bad boys and while he wasn't as big as Laimbeer or Mahorn, he was probably the dirtiest.

I'd be surprised if Anthony gets anything less than 10 games. I think they should let him play now and like they said on ESPN this morning, suspend him for a round of the playoffs.

I think the fact of who was in the game at the time is a non-issue. The foul wasn't committed because Denver had a couple of starters in there, it was committed because he was told to do that if the opportunity presented itself.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

You're blaming the Knicks more than the Nuggets. It's equal blame and you're flat out wrong and being arrogant about it.

If Karl had put the reserves in this incident wouldn't have happened. If Smith would have pulled up and ran the shot clock this incident wouldn't have happened. BTW most, if not all, NBA teams show a little class and empty the bench in a blowout.

How anyone could not see the Nuggets rubbing it in is beyond me.

yes, i do hold one more responsible, as they lost control and took things physical. but if you read my initial post, i feel that the coach is a great deal responsible for them takiing it to a physical level, as he excuses their action. i said that both sides were unsportsmanlike. but imo a foul physically is worse than running up the score. i mean, what's the threshold? 15 point up, 20? where is it allowed to become physical?
also, both teams escalated the conflict, and both were in the wrong. but i believe my initial point was that the coach should take a good bit of the heat, as he excused a blatant foul by his player, rather than saying the player was in the wrong.

i'm not a basketball fan, i don't watch often. so i am a bit ignorant regarding what is typically done when a game gets out of hand. but my point was that i hoped the coach got an equal share of the blame, as he's the leader of the team.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by skippy3481

Zig , is the greatest football handicapper ever. Just let it roll off of you. I agree with you regardless of what nuggets did, it does not excuse what the knicks did. Like the nuggets dunking is really going to hurt he crowd. After Isiah stopped playing, he became a moron. He was the coach of the pacers here for a while( thank god he's gone) My whole question is if the backups are in and someone winds up for a huge dunk, would the hard foul have been totally wrong or just partly because after all they were up big?

i just really think it's a shame that people can't have any kind of discussion without name calling. funniest part is i didn't disagree with him about anything! just think resorting to violence is worse than playing a starter. runing up a score IS unsportsmanlike, but not on a level with getting physical.

[paisjpq]

Okay, i pulled the insults and garbage...I'm not sure what caused the animosity but lets please try to be civil.