I Think Barbaro Should Be Put Down

randallscott35 · #1 01-13-2007, 05:31 PM

I've thought about this a lot recently, and discussed it with some board members as well. My belief is that it should've been done after the Preakness. The extent of his injuries and subsequent laminitis were massive. Every horse, other than a Derby winner, would have been put down. Add to it the negative coverage that comes from such a high profile horse and the work to save him makes sense. I think the Jackson's are good people, but it doesn't mean they are doing the right thing here. Horses don't speak, and sure the horse might not seem like he's in pain, but the constant surgeries and treatments are not going to stop. In fact he had another surgery last night....I don't see this having a happy ending. I think the mistake was made during the summer and its being compounded. Again, the animal lover in me thinks he should be put down. There is nothing noble about keeping him around to go from surgery to surgery to setback to setback.

SniperSB23 · #2 01-13-2007, 05:38 PM

I think if Barbaro doesn't want to live anymore he will let them know. Until then I think they are absolutely doing the right thing by doing everything possible to let him live.

randallscott35 · #3 01-13-2007, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

I think if Barbaro doesn't want to live anymore he will let them know. Until then I think they are absolutely doing the right thing by doing everything possible to let him live.

C'mon now, just because an animal will eat doesn't mean you make an assessment about whether they want to live or not. Animals are not people.

Downthestretch55 · #4 01-13-2007, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randallscott35

I've thought about this a lot recently, and discussed it with some board members as well. My belief is that it should've been done after the Preakness. The extent of his injuries and subsequent laminitis were massive. Every horse, other than a Derby winner, would have been put down. Add to it the negative coverage that comes from such a high profile horse and the work to save him makes sense. I think the Jackson's are good people, but it doesn't mean they are doing the right thing here. Horses don't speak, and sure the horse might not seem like he's in pain, but the constant surgeries and treatments are not going to stop. In fact he had another surgery last night....I don't see this having a happy ending. I think the mistake was made during the summer and its being compounded. Again, the animal lover in me thinks he should be put down. There is nothing noble about keeping him around to go from surgery to surgery to setback to setback.

Randall,
Sadly, I find myself in agreement with you.
I wrote about him in my "lessons learned from chickens" thread.
I've been a fan of his for a long long time. Oh the thrills!
That said, there comes a time to end the suffering, admit it. Misery needs to be confronted despite all of our best hopes otherwise.
Yes, Barbaro has made many friends, myself included.
All of his fans will cry, as they should. I will.
It's difficult to give up on hope, dreams unfulfilled.
I sure would love to see his babies run, but if that's not in the cards, I'll just treasure good memories, and let him go.
It might be in his best interest.
Peace.
DTS

brianwspencer · #5 01-13-2007, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randallscott35

C'mon now, just because an animal will eat doesn't mean you make an assessment about whether they want to live or not. Animals are not people.

But by and large you can tell by their temperment if they are miserable or not. If it were some schmo on the street insisting that he keep fighting it would be different -- I think it's been clear from the beginning that Dr. Richardson and the Jacksons would never press it one second further than was good for Barbaro. I trust in their opinions 100%.

#6 01-13-2007, 05:46 PM

He's a true fighter and has proven so much more than he ever could on the track about his heart... but I took feel like its going to be a losing battle. In my heart of hearts, I dont see a good outcome. Living is a shell if the quality of life isnt good.

paisjpq · #7 01-13-2007, 05:49 PM

this horse has shown time and time again that he is a fighter...those are also the types that tolerate pain and don't really show when they are hurting until it gets REALLY bad...the fact that the hospital says he is 'acceptably comfortable' means so much more than his owners saying he is 'in no pain'...they sound as though they are in denial.

I've worked with horses hands on for a long time...many years were spent with Morgans...a breed that sees a lot of laminitis...I've lost horses and seen horses survive...but the cost (and I'm not talking about $$) is great...in salvaging the animal's life we robbed it of the essense of being a horse...that is to graze freely and to run around in a pasture...for the remainder of their lives the disease would recur at various times...causing more pain and dietary and execise restrictions...

though I understand the emotional desire to save them all I have arrived at the opinion that it is usually kinder to let them go...and the laminitis coupled with the fracture makes Barbaros future uncertain at best and likely not the most comfortable or fulfilling existance...I have to say that I agree with Randy...I think that intially the Jacksons were doing the right thing for the right reason, and that now they are doing the wrong thing for the right reason...I don't doubt for a moment that they have the best intentions but sometimes the hardest decision to make is ultimately the right one....JMO

Downthestretch55 · #8 01-13-2007, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Right, but it's a decent indication from my experience. I think it's a very hard decision either way and actually maybe more difficult for the owners to keep him alive seeing him go through the surgeries. But if the horse keeps fighting, why not let him fight?

DaHoss,
You might be right, but if the test of "courage" is defined by continued pain, in my humble opinion, Barbaro has already shown what a courageous horse he is. He has nothing more to prove.
Who is he fighting for?
He's already survived his battles with great valor.

randallscott35 · #9 01-13-2007, 05:49 PM

Mind you these quotes from Richardson were before the latest surgery from this morning.

Long term? "We don't know," Richardson said. "I carefully chose the word setback. It's a significant setback in terms of we have to manage his pain more aggressively now. We've got to worry more about his right hind, because he's bearing so much more weight on his right hind, getting off his left. So there are a lot of issues involved that we have to manage."

Richardson and the Jacksons discuss the long term on a regular basis. All made it clear that the colt must ultimately be able to lead a pain-free life. "If we think we're to the point that he isn't acceptable and we don't have reasonable options to try, then we'll give up," Richardson said. "That isn't the case right now."

The fact is, they have tried. And all its led to is more surgeries, more casts, more questions. You aren't doing a service for this horse, that's what we are missing here. This is more about human nature being selfish IMO. People don't want to feel badly about the sport we love which inherently costs horses their lives. We affix more value to Barbaro than the 5k claimer that breaks down at Penn National which is unfair on so many levels.

Dunbar · #10 01-13-2007, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randallscott35

I've thought about this a lot recently, and discussed it with some board members as well. My belief is that it should've been done after the Preakness. The extent of his injuries and subsequent laminitis were massive. Every horse, other than a Derby winner, would have been put down. Add to it the negative coverage that comes from such a high profile horse and the work to save him makes sense. I think the Jackson's are good people, but it doesn't mean they are doing the right thing here. Horses don't speak, and sure the horse might not seem like he's in pain, but the constant surgeries and treatments are not going to stop. In fact he had another surgery last night....I don't see this having a happy ending. I think the mistake was made during the summer and its being compounded. Again, the animal lover in me thinks he should be put down. There is nothing noble about keeping him around to go from surgery to surgery to setback to setback.

I totally disagree, randall. It has already had a happy ending. When you are loved by every being that comes into contact with you, as Barbaro is, things aren't all that bad.

Barbaro has had more affection poured onto him than any animal on the planet. From all reports and appearances his suffering has been minimal. Surgery is not a pleasant experience for human or animal, but the in between time more than makes up for it.

--Dunbar

SCUDSBROTHER · #11 01-13-2007, 05:53 PM

To me,it is all about whether an animal eats.That is everything (when it comes to animals.)That is the way they communicate the way they feel.

randallscott35 · #12 01-13-2007, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

To me,it is all about whether an animal eats.That is everything (when it comes to animals.)That is the way they communicate the way they feel.

I'll defer to Beth and others with more hands on horse experience, but I think there is a lot more to it than whether an animal eats or not. He's definitely a fighter as she said, but that doesn't mean its the right thing to do.

timmgirvan · #13 01-13-2007, 05:55 PM

Rand: This is a tough call for the owners and Doc! But make no mistake..Barbaro is infinitely more valuable than a 5k claimer on every level!

Downthestretch55 · #14 01-13-2007, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

2nd plug now for your "lessons learned from chickens" but okay. While you are willing to let go, and it's admirable lets not forget that the horse doesn't seem to willing to let go. He keeps fighting. Let him fight. I could care less if he reproduces, him surviving the whole ordeal would be enough for me. I honestly believe the people who are making the decisions are doing what they believe is the right thing by Barbaro, so it's okay by me.

That thread doesn't need a plug. Don't read it if you don't like it.
Now, back to Barbaro...sure we'd all love to see him romping in a pasture.
If that's to be, fine.
As I said, I'll take the memories. I don't make the decisions.
There is a time to say enough is enough.
I've been around a few horses that let me know that. even if they can't speak like you and me, they let you know.
Barbaro has nothing more to prove.

randallscott35 · #15 01-13-2007, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

Rand: This is a tough call for the owners and Doc! But make no mistake..Barbaro is infinitely more valuable than a 5k claimer on every level!

Of course he is, from a financial standpoint which is what this should absolutely not be about. I hate the fact that we care less about the cheap horses who are run into the grave and then jump up and down to save the expensive ones. There is no consistency here....The main point here is that trying to save him with the extent of the injuries he had was unheard of. If it was a stakes horse on the undercard that day, they would've been put down without a second thought. So while he is still alive, his future isn't any better than that day as far as I'm concerned.

paisjpq · #16 01-13-2007, 06:01 PM

3 years ago I had a horse come in from turnout lame...three legged lame. The owner agreed to have the leg x-rayed and the horse had fractured his patella and chipped a good flake off his femur...he was a decent sugical candidate (and the $$ was not an issue)...but he had had 2 previous surgeries while racing to remove chips and both times had serious issues recovering from anesthesia so the owner opted for a wait and see approach...to keep him 'acceptably comfortable' with medication and stall rest...that horse lived for 18 months...he ate well and hobbled around with his pasture mates....but he was not a happy horse (he was 'bright'...but that does not mean happy)...his owner loved him dearly and refused to see that the kindest solution was to put hime down...it wasn't until he had gone so far downhill that he wouldn't eat and had lost a great deal of weight that he allowed me to have the horse put down...
today 2 almost 2 years after the horse was buried he admits that he wishes he hadn't waited so long...that horse was a fighter too.

timmgirvan · #17 01-13-2007, 06:03 PM

I think it's past the point of money....I don't think that's the issue now.

Downthestretch55 · #18 01-13-2007, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paisjpq

3 years ago I had a horse come in from turnout lame...three legged lame. The owner agreed to have the leg x-rayed and the horse had fractured his patella and chipped a good flake off his femur...he was a decent sugical candidate (and the $$ was not an issue)...but he had had 2 previous surgeries while racing to remove chips and both times had serious issues recovering from anesthesia so the owner opted for a wait and see approach...to keep him 'acceptably comfortable' with medication and stall rest...that horse lived for 18 months...he ate well and hobbled around with his pasture mates....but he was not a happy horse (he was 'bright'...but that does not mean happy)...his owner loved him dearly and refused to see that the kindest solution was to put hime down...it wasn't until he had gone so far downhill that he wouldn't eat and had lost a great deal of weight that he allowed me to have the horse put down...
today 2 almost 2 years after the horse was buried he admits that he wishes he hadn't waited so long...that horse was a fighter too.

Pais,
Thanks for that story. Gosh, I have mine. Too many, all sad.
I won't share them now cause they'll take from the real concerns on this thread.
Sometimes, it's just too hard to do what's best for the horse depite what we humans want.

sumitas · #19 01-13-2007, 06:19 PM

No question Barbaro is recovering. His people are absolutely doing the right thing because the horse wants to live. You folks would do better to try and improve the safety of horse racing instead of biting the heels of this group of caring health experts.

paisjpq · #20 01-13-2007, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Sad story and you make a good point. But I still have faith that those involved will do right by the colt. No two situations are the exact same and who knows how this will turn out. In my heart I don't feel like the connections are doing this out of selfishness. I feel like they truly want him around and I feel like Dr. Richardson wouldn't do anything he felt Barbaro couldn't handle.

love is selfish sometimes....like I said i don't think they have anything but the best intentions. I just disagree at this point. Fortunately my opinion doesn't matter.