Steve Nash

Originally Posted by turdbucket67

do u think he is better then lebron???

Absolutely he is better than Lebron at this point. Lebron is still young and a much better athlete. But at this point Bird was a better, shooter, passer, and rebounder. And more important than anything else, Bird made everyone on the team better. Lebron does a pretty good job at that, better than Kobe up to this point.

Bird had a wonderful feel for the game. He knew when to take his time, pounce, he is the most instinctive player I have ever seen.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Absolutely he is better than Lebron at this point. Lebron is still young and a much better athlete. But at this point Bird was a better, shooter, passer, and rebounder. And more important than anything else, Bird made everyone on the team better. Lebron does a pretty good job at that, better than Kobe up to this point.

Bird had a wonderful feel for the game. He knew when to take his time, pounce, he is the most instinctive player I have ever seen.

also league MVP for 3 straight years...85, 86, 87.

Pat, wouldn't you agree that the biggest thing that made him one of the greats was just his total court awareness and vision?

Originally Posted by T3B

also league MVP for 3 straight years...85, 86, 87.

Pat, wouldn't you agree that the biggest thing that made him one of the greats was just his total court awareness and vision?

Absolutely. And he just knew the game. He could not even jump that well but would outrebound guys because he knew exactly how to body them up. He got more out of that body than anyone would think possible. A total gym rat.

His hands were also amazing Kev. He is the guy you would want to start a TEAM with. He is the best TEAM player of all time imo. Michael learned that from him. Michael would score all these points early in his career and not win big games which he very badly wanted to do. Bird showed him the way in early confrontations. And then Michael with the right people around him, Pippen, especially, became THE total package.

Oh yes I must add I hated Bird with a passion. One of the biggest trash-talkers of all time.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Absolutely. And he just knew the game. He could not even jump that well but would outrebound guys because he knew exactly how to body them up. He got more out of that body than anyone would think possible. A total gym rat.

His hands were also amazing Kev. He is the guy you would want to start a TEAM with. He is the best TEAM player of all time imo. Michael learned that from him. Michael would score all these points early in his career and not win big games which he very badly wanted to do. Bird showed him the way in early confrontations. And then Michael with the right people around him, Pippen, especially, became THE total package.

He just simply outworked, outplayed and outsmarted other players.

Pat, do you remember the interview the did with Xavier (X-Man) McDaniel? They were talking about Larry and the end of game situations. X said something along the lines of...

....Larry knew he was getting the ball, you knew Larry was getting the ball. Larry would come tell you he was getting the ball, he would tell you where he was gonna shoot it from and then he would tell you that he was gonna bury the shot in your face....and after he made the shot, all you could do was walk off the court and shake your head.


LB was never afraid to talk trash, but no one backed it up like he did.

Originally Posted by T3B

He just simply outworked, outplayed and outsmarted other players.

Pat, do you remember the interview the did with Xavier (X-Man) McDaniel? They were talking about Larry and the end of game situations. X said something along the lines of...

....Larry knew he was getting the ball, you knew Larry was getting the ball. Larry would come tell you he was getting the ball, he would tell you where he was gonna shoot it from and then he would tell you that he was gonna bury the shot in your face....and after he made the shot, all you could do was walk off the court and shake your head.


LB was never afraid to talk trash, but no one backed it up like he did.

Kev there is more than the interview. They have the microphone down on the court and a camera on Bird and McDaniel when Bird was cussing him and vice versa. Bird said I am going to shoot a bleepin 3 on you from right here you bleep. And McDaniel bleepity bleeped back. and bird took the inbounds pass and shot the 3 right where he had pointed and made it. And the thing is Bird just ran off after that. He would cuss you during the game, but after he abused somebody, he would just walk away. He was also famous for spitting. Bird spit on fans in San Antonio and got fined. He was an a-hole.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Kev there is more than the interview. They have the microphone down on the court and a camera on Bird and McDaniel when Bird was cussing him and vice versa. Bird said I am going to shoot a bleepin 3 on you from right here you bleep. And McDaniel bleepity bleeped back. and bird took the inbounds pass and shot the 3 right where he had pointed and made it. And the thing is Bird just ran off after that. He would cuss you during the game, but after he abused somebody, he would just walk away. He was also famous for spitting. Bird spit on fans in San Antonio and got fined. He was an a-hole.

how many of his peers had no respect for him? maybe 1 or 2

Originally Posted by T3B

how many of his peers had no respect for him? maybe 1 or 2

As a basketball player I have ultimate respect. Jordan, and Magic Johnson also claim he was the best team player of all time.

But have you seen what the SOB has done with his daughter? Not a family man by any means and just not a nice guy. At least Michael took care of his offspring and cares about them.

So I loved his basketball prowess. But I despise him. I dont see how any man could just blow off his daughter like this guy. Hate to be judgemental, but thats why I like guys such as David Robinson and Tim Duncan. Their family comes first. And that may also be why they will never reach the level of guys like Bird.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by pgardn

As a basketball player I have ultimate respect. Jordan, and Magic Johnson also claim he was the best team player of all time.

But have you seen what the SOB has done with his daughter? Not a family man by any means and just not a nice guy. At least Michael took care of his offspring and cares about them.

So I loved his basketball prowess. But I despise him. I dont see how any man could just blow off his daughter like this guy. Hate to be judgemental, but thats why I like guys such as David Robinson and Tim Duncan. Their family comes first. And that may also be why they will never reach the level of guys like Bird.

I am not saying he is the best human being to walk the face of the earth. I know about his daughter Corrie, but as most people, am unaware of the full story involved.

[GPK]

Pat, again, you need to understand that the circumstances surrounding the situation. I do find it funny though that you fail to mention the 2 kids he has with his wife now were both ADOPTED...meaning he took in two kids that someone else did not want. Still a bad family man Pat?

Originally Posted by T3B

I am not saying he is the best human being to walk the face of the earth. I know about his daughter Corrie, but as most people, am unaware of the full story involved.

And we never know the whole story of anyones life. I just dont like what I have read... at all. Now I did see him spit on the fans in San Antonio. But we have some a-holes fans that were probably cussing him. Other guys seemed to take the crap lots better than Bird and refrained from spitting.

At least he did not fertilize half the female population in the U.S. like Shawn Kemp. All I know about Kemp is what I read. I dont know the whole story there either. But I can make a judgement that Kemp did not help in controlling world population growth. Heck he may be a heck of a good dad.

But I digress. I just like people that are good at what they do and SEEM like good people. I like Tiger Woods and Roger Federer a heck of a lot. I have read a lot of good things about them. But heck, they may be real jerks to the wife and girlfriend also.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by pgardn

And we never know the whole story of anyones life. I just dont like what I have read... at all. Now I did see him spit on the fans in San Antonio. But we have some a-holes fans that were probably cussing him. Other guys seemed to take the crap lots better than Bird and refrained from spitting.

At least he did not fertilize half the female population in the U.S. like Shawn Kemp. All I know about Kemp is what I read. I dont know the whole story there either. But I can make a judgement that Kemp did not help in controlling world population growth. Heck he may be a heck of a good dad.

But I digress. I just like people that are good at what they do and SEEM like good people. I like Tiger Woods and Roger Federer a heck of a lot. I have read a lot of good things about them. But heck, they may be real jerks to the wife and girlfriend also.

fair enough...it's just like me hearing the behind the scenes things about Phil Mickelson make me dislike him...

Originally Posted by T3B

fair enough...it's just like me hearing the behind the scenes things about Phil Mickelson make me dislike him...

Think the Cats out of the bag with Phil.
My brother in AZ said some stuff is loose.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Think the Cats out of the bag with Phil.
My brother in AZ said some stuff is loose.

and people were calling me crazy for saying what I was. I would have never said anything had my source not been reliable....

Originally Posted by T3B

and people were calling me crazy for saying what I was. I would have never said anything had my source not been reliable....

Kev... there is only so much playing around that an individual can do. Its like spreading the flu. Same with Mr. Jordan. Mr. Jordan is/was a nice looking man. Somebody is gonna brag. ANd it may not be true with Phil or Michael. I would not take the evidence to court but.... Too much of it from people unrelated with no reason to tar anyone.

Then again Bill "did not have sex with that woman..." lookin straight into the camera.

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Come on man. Lebron is very good, but he has a long, long way to go to be included in this conversation. Time will tell if he should be, but it's an insult to Bird, Jordan, Wilt and all of the others to put Lebron in there.

Lebron is very good. He is as physically talented as any player to ever play. But that does not put one in the elite company of the real players. Julius Erving has been mentioned maybe one time in this entire thread...and he has a championship. Lebron could be Dr. J maybe...

Originally Posted by turdbucket67

i hope this was just a joke



and i never said he was better then bird right now. but you act like lebrons greatness doesn't even exist. he is definitely the best player in the game right now.. if your starting a team right now your saying you would take wade or kobe over lebron??? no way no how.. lebron has way to much potential and lets not forget his numbers are pretty incredible


bird 24 10 6
lebron 27 7 6

Stats stats. Lebron is Clevelands entire team... He would not have these stats on Dallas, Detroit, San Antonio. Allen Iverson stats on Philadelphia were incredible. Cmon, Bird has some players along with him and still had those numbers... incredible.

[Cannon Shell]

Where to start...
Steve Nash is a very good player ....who happens to thrive in a perfect setting. The team he is on fits him to a T. Push the ball, fill the lanes, very athletic but not a halfcourt team. Phoenix is a good team and they are fun to watch BUT they do not play the kind of interior defense that wins in the playoffs. The Spurs are a tough match up for them.

That being said, there is no way that Steve Nash is an all time top 20 player, not a chance. He simply cant match up on the defensive end in a half court game. He is a very good passer, makes few bad turnovers, has become a clutch shooter but is not in the same league as Oscar, Jordan, Magic, Bird, Wilt, Russell, West, etc. He is very similar to Stockton. If you put him on the Grizzlies, we would not be talking about him.

As for the MVP, I think that Lebron and Gilbert are more crucial to their teams. If you take either one away the Cavs and Wizards are 15-20 win teams. With them they are deep into the playoffs teams. Phoenix would not be nearly as good as they are but they still have yet to make much of an impact in the playoffs WITH Nash.

Turd, Larry Bird could have scored 45 a game if thats what was needed. Guy was unstoppable, had unlimited range, great passer, uncanny instincts around the basket. He was fortunate to play with a team that had many great role players that allowed him to just create offense in many different ways. Imagine Dirk if he could pass and had a mean streak.