buying a horse?

[POINTGIVEN1985]

can you guys post on what it takes to be a horse, im talking everything funds,licenses anything and everything? im trying to get into but i have no clue .

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by POINTGIVEN1985

can you guys post on what it takes to be a horse, im talking everything funds,licenses anything and everything? im trying to get into but i have no clue .

Licenses are usually between $50-100 per year per state, upkeep per month on a horse in NY CA is between 40-50k per year for everything. In KY IL NJ a bit lower, but not much.

[POINTGIVEN1985]

thank you

[disappearingdan_akaplaya]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Licenses are usually between $50-100 per year per state, upkeep per month on a horse in NY CA is between 40-50k per year for everything. In KY IL NJ a bit lower, but not much.

not necessarily cannon. that upkeep is way lower in ILL. sure you can pay 60-65 a day to some of the gyp's here that cant train wortha squat but there are good trainers here that are reasonably priced like mine, reavis etc etc. if youre paying anywhere near 4-5 g a month on a horse here every month youre getting ripped off

[skippy3481]

Point given, if your inquiring just for knowledge, by all means ignore my statement. But if your looking to get into horse racing for a little bit cheaper, give me a pm and i can tell you what i found. But cannon is an active trainer, so i would believe his numbers.

[The Bid]

If you want to own your horses alone count on each horse costing you 30k.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by disappearingdan_akaplaya

not necessarily cannon. that upkeep is way lower in ILL. sure you can pay 60-65 a day to some of the gyp's here that cant train wortha squat but there are good trainers here that are reasonably priced like mine, reavis etc etc. if youre paying anywhere near 4-5 g a month on a horse here every month youre getting ripped off

well if you add in vet, vanning, blacksmith, etc it gets close to that. 3 g's a month is 36k per year

[AeWingnut]

I think it cost the same for a stake horse as a $5k claimer

[PSH]

I purchased two horses last year for the first time and there is much involved:

1) We started a LLC so we had to go to The Jockey Club and see if the name we chosen was still available. Then we had to incorporate in a State of our choice...

2) We bought the horses privately....Need to properly notify The Jockey Club on transfer of ownership registration and there is also a whole process to naming a horse if you buy the horse unnamed.

3) Went back to The Jockey Club and reserved our silk colors

4) Needed to get license in the various states. So far we are licensed in NY State and West Virginia. In New York State, there is a much more involved process including getting fingerprinted... In WV pretty easy...

5) Obviously need to hire a trainer at the track also we have a trainer who acts as our advisor at the Farm. Would strongly recommend to get someone like that to help you out, unless not needed.

6) We also hired an accountant who specializes in horse racing accounting to prepare K-1 forms at the end of each year

7) Opened a checking account specifically for the horse racing venture. Strongly recommend to keep the account separate from everything else.

8) In NY need to have workman's comp insurance that costs $660 per year

9) To race in NY (Belmont-Aqueduct-Saratoga) need to fill out various forms for the NYRA...

10) I am sure i am forgetting about a dozen other things....

PSH

[The Bid]

Like Cannon said with the extra 36

I make a deal upfront. I pay through the entire year then I never have to worry about it. I almost get about 6 grand knocked off the overall, leaving me at 30 per.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by AeWingnut

I think it cost the same for a stake horse as a $5k claimer

At first glance this looks like an obvious statement. But I can't impress upon folks the absolute truth in it. What it takes to keep a horse is so far and away paramount to buying one. Day rates are the variable - anywhere from 40 ish a day in the mid west and minor tracks to 80+ a day at NY, GP, SA, etc.

That's 80 a day, whether it's an 8K claimer or Nobiz Like Showbiz...Add vet bills, shoes, transportation, supplements...it adds up every month.

It's the greatest experience of a lifetime, and if one has the means, I highly recommend it. But go into it with the firm knowledge that you may not race, you may have medical issues, etc. but the horse eats 7 days a week regardless.

If you're looking to purchase a 2yo at a sale, there are other factors that go into the purchase. The horse needs to be scoped, vetted, and vanned to the training facility. From there you are looking at most likely 5-8 months of training before you get to the track. Add another 6-8 weeks of training and gatework at the track before your first race. Typically, I pay between 48.00 to 55.00 a day for training 2yo's in Ocala depending on which farm I use.

So, say for instance you purchase a 2yo at the OBS select sale in March. For the sake of example, say you pay 50K.

You've got Bloodstock agent(or whoever you're using to help select the horse and represent you as the buyer in the sale ring) fees, Vet fees and Van fees, and mortality insurance right off the bat. If you are training near the sale barn (in this case Ocala) the van fees are minimal as the van will be full of horses most likely going to the same place or within close proximity.


Agent fees - I think I paid around 5% of the purchase price, but that may be high
Insurance - around 10% of the purchase price

So...50,000 in the horse
5,000 insurance
2,500 to the agent
300 vet
140 van
You're right around 58,000 to get the horse off the property.

The first month or two at the training farm is usually just letting them out in the field. The stress of the sale + they're still very young can ruin a good horse by rushing it into training. Typically the day rate is lower (33.00 a day) until they get into training mode.
Other factors to consider - they will probably come out of the sale with shins from breezing the undertack. They've possibly had been given a form of cortizol steroid to keep the inflamation down for the sale - 3 days later you see what you've got. In any case, The trainer may recommend a blister or pinfire as the horse will be off 60 days anyhow.

First month - day rate - 33 x30 = 990.00
Vet pinfire 250.00
meds 45.00

around 1300.00 not too bad

expect the same for the 2nd month and then training untill Sept.(if you're lucky) I'd say 1 out of 5 get to the track by then.

2nd month - day rate 990.00
suplements 45.00
Farrier (2 shoes) 70.00

2nd month 1105.00


3-6 months - day rate - 48.00x30 = 1440
suplements 45
vet check 50
farrier 70

4months @ 1605.00 = 6420

Now your ready for shipping to the track. depending on transport ( I use a company that ships in 10x12 containers rather than a typical horse trailer as it is MUCH less stressful and they can lay down if they want to) your looking at around 1300.00 to get to NY from Ocala

1st month at the track - Day rate 80x30 2400.00
Transportation 1300.00
Vet and shoes (all 4 feet this time!) 400.00

1st month at the track 4100.00

Horse progresses along nicely,continues to grow and build endurance, and earns it's gate card... You are ready to go for the First week of BEL

2nd month at the track DR - 2400.00
shoes 135.00
meds and sups (lasix, etc) 85.00
2nd month trackside 2620.00


So add it up:
the horse cost 50,000, but your sales expenses were 8,000.
your 1st 2 months training were 2,405
months 3-6 were 6,420
1st month trackside including shipping 4,100
2nd month trackside 2,620

So you've got 23,545 of expenses IN ADDITION to the 50,000 sale price.. that you've spent before you see an opportunity for a check.

And this is a great case scenario. If the horse injurse itself in training or there are development delays, (which is the case about 80% of the time) get ready to shell out more.

[Danzig]

thanks for the info rude...but i'm suddenly depressed..

note to self:buy more lottery tix. bound to hit sooner or later.

[Cannon Shell]

You should probably buy a small share in a partnership and find out all you can before you jump in and buy your own. This way you get a little on the job training at a much lower cost.

[PSH]

We purchased each of our two horses for under $15,000 privately...
We purchased one in January 2006 and one in April 2006 as two year olds. If one is patient there always comes up a decent horse with an okay pedigree that someone is desperate to unload, and you can make what seems a reasonable purchase. Unfortunately, neither one has started yet... We have our horses with a trainer at West Virginia (Mountaineer) and at $45 per day.... One is about 30 days away from her first race and the other probably about 60 days away.

In our first year our total expenses for these two horses were just over $43,000 all in. INcluding purchasse price and everything else (training, vanning, medical, financial, licensing, etc), to give you an idea.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You should probably buy a small share in a partnership and find out all you can before you jump in and buy your own. This way you get a little on the job training at a much lower cost.

This is great advice. I think the first thing to do is narrow your focus to exactly what you think you want to accomplish. The claiming game offers almost immediate gratification with regard to time invested to first race. If you've got the bankroll to float 8-10 months of expenses, the 2yo sales are a nice option. 16+ months? lot of value at the yearling sales. Also helps to have someone on the backside that talks with trainers as they occasionally have owners that need to sell for whatever reason and a good deal can be made priavtely. Are you looking to run in state bred company? Filly or Colt? Examine the pros and cons of each..

Once you have a game plan, seek out partnerships that fits with your business model. Do an exhausting amount of reasearch on each opportunity and ask questions. They're are some great partnership stables out there and some crooked ones (not that they're intrinsically corrupt, just that they no nothing of what they're doing and can cause you and the horse alot of unnecessary distress).

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Once you have a game plan, seek out partnerships that fits with your business model. Do an exhausting amount of reasearch on each opportunity and ask questions. They're are some great partnership stables out there and some crooked ones (not that they're intrinsically corrupt, just that they no nothing of what they're doing and can cause you and the horse alot of unnecessary distress).

I neglected to say something like this and rudeboy is right on the mark about doing your homework.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You should probably buy a small share in a partnership and find out all you can before you jump in and buy your own. This way you get a little on the job training at a much lower cost.

that's what i'm looking at doing a few years down the road-and of course making sure to get into a properly run partnership!

[POINTGIVEN1985]

ok i posted this thread because i was told that some trainers would take a deal that went something like this.... i purchase the horse on my own, i give the trainer a 50-50 share, and that trainers covers everything else, because i honestly dont have the kind of money everyone is saying you need.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by POINTGIVEN1985

ok i posted this thread because i was told that some trainers would take a deal that went something like this.... i purchase the horse on my own, i give the trainer a 50-50 share, and that trainers covers everything else, because i honestly dont have the kind of money everyone is saying you need.

I've got a couple of claimers with a trainer in WV like this. If you can get a 50-50 split, that's doing well - typically I see 60-40, 65-35 to the trainer's advantage. I'm assuming your talking about claimers because I can't imagine a trainer would take this deal with a fresh of the lot 2yo for the reasons outlined earlier. Once they're race ready, they've crossed the chasm of unending bills. They're now elgible to offset their costs, and even make you a few bucks. So the trainer, if he's got the space anyhow, adds a few more oats to the bill every month, and has a chance to have a stake in a horse without the expense.

I once claimed a horse in a partnership with a trainer this way. They horse got bumped heavily in the first turn and got a bad knee from the trip. He's got chips and some arthritis in the knee which eliminated surgery as an option. He needs time and lots of it (probably a year off) and I won't see a bill. the trainer takes a big chance like this, but he also benefits more than his standard 10% when it goes the right way.