BEYER: Poly's Anti-Speed Bias

[Jax Cajun]

This thread is all over the board, all I can say about the Beyer figures is that if you don't like 'em don't use 'em and I'll be glad to take your money.

About synthetic surfaces: We just don't have enough data to incorporate it in our normal handicapping, especially when shippers move in. It's one thing to 'cap races where all horses have experience on it, but it's just a guess when you have dirt and turf invaders in the same race on the poly for the first time. I think we've seen horses recover faster from it from the Hollywood - Santa Anita transition, but there is nothing to go on with first time synthetic.

[MisterB]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The only whiner in any way associated with this is obviously you, someone who through their continued uninformed knocking of Andy Beyer shows an obvious all-consuming jealousy of him, as well as a likely complete dissatisfaction with your own poor results. Criticizing someone who has done as much for horseplayers as Andy Beyer has just exposes you.

I am not knocking Andy personally, and you have no problem knocking me, so what is your point Throat? You believe in Beyers, and are close friends with Andy, so what. I have my own theories on Horse racing, and it is not Beyers, so I am not allowed to disagree with Andy, you or anyone else?

I Got it

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by MisterB

I am not knocking Andy personally, and you have no problem knocking me, so what is your point Throat? You believe in Beyers, and are close friends with Andy, so what. I have my own theories on Horse racing, and it is not Beyers, so I am not allowed to disagree with Andy, you or anyone else?

I Got it

I love it when someone posts something indefensible and then whines " Oh, I guess I'm not allowed to have my own opinion ".

[Jax Cajun]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The only whiner in any way associated with this is obviously you, someone who through their continued uninformed knocking of Andy Beyer shows an obvious all-consuming jealousy of him, as well as a likely complete dissatisfaction with your own poor results. Criticizing someone who has done as much for horseplayers as Andy Beyer has just exposes you.

Amen Brother! Andy gave us My Typhoon in the Jenny Wiley from the Youbet show, he didn't have to do that.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Jax Cajun

Amen Brother! Andy gave us My Typhoon in the Jenny Wiley from the Youbet show, he didn't have to do that.

Sort of, I'll give him 1/2 credit for the selection because it was based on it staying on the turf. Better than my choice.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by MisterB

So Andy is frustrated he can't pick a winner, so he is whining to all the public. Everyone has the same perspective as he does. Anyway, when did Andy last pick a derby winner?? I can't seem to remember.

In case you are further confused, allow me to simplify things by disecting this rubbish.....


How the phuck do you know " Andy can't pick a winner "?

He is not whining, but in fact wrote a well thought out piece, backed up completely by facts.

Everyone, in truth, does NOT have the same perspective as Beyer, as evidenced by ArlJim's well thought out disagreement in this thread.

Bringing up when Beyer had his last Derby winner, the last thread Beyer-haters have to cling to, has absolutely NOTHING to do with the column printed to begin this post.


So, in other words, your response was both inaccurate and completely irrelevent to this thread and merely a desperate attempt to sling mud at someone you are obviously jealous of. Get in line, this game is filled with losers who instead of looking into themselves to try and better their play, lash out at those of us that are successful in this game.

[Jax Cajun]

Originally Posted by philcski

Sort of, I'll give him 1/2 credit for the selection because it was based on it staying on the turf. Better than my choice.

He pointed out that My Typhoon had raced against superior competition compared to Wait a While. It was a smart angle and seeing him at 6-1 we jumped all over it.

[MisterB]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

In case you are further confused, allow me to simplify things by disecting this rubbish.....


How the phuck do you know " Andy can't pick a winner "?

He is not whining, but in fact wrote a well thought out piece, backed up completely by facts.

Everyone, in truth, does NOT have the same perspective as Beyer, as evidenced by ArlJim's well thought out disagreement in this thread.

Bringing up when Beyer had his last Derby winner, the last thread Beyer-haters have to cling to, has absolutely NOTHING to do with the column printed to begin this post.


So, in other words, your response was both inaccurate and completely irrelevent to this thread and merely a desperate attempt to sling mud at someone you are obviously jealous of. Get in line, this game is filled with losers who instead of looking into themselves to try and better their play, lash out at those of us that are successful in this game.

This was one race, and one piece on Keeneland, and his dislike of the track. He didn't tell just me, he told everyone, including the president of Keeneland. I read this stuff, and come to my own conclusions, Andy isn't happy, because he can't figure out the Beyer, even you said, "Andy thinks he got it right", your own quote. This is not a lash out, and I don't get in any lines, I form my own. When you go out of your way to spew your own venom, to stick up for your friend, I just take it as that. I have big shoulders, I been in this game over 40 years, I still have a bankroll to play with, so life is good.

[slotdirt]

The race at Keeneland that I really botched was the Commonwealth. Silent Name was so obvious, which I got, but then I completely missed Lewis Michael.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

The race at Keeneland that I really botched was the Commonwealth. Silent Name was so obvious, which I got, but then I completely missed Lewis Michael.

That was one I liked, but totally missed the winner and the 3rd horse. The two I liked finished 2nd and 5th. I thought Michael was going to keep moving when they came off the turn, but Silent Name had another gear. It was disappointing at the odds Michael went off at.

[Jax Cajun]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

The race at Keeneland that I really botched was the Commonwealth. Silent Name was so obvious, which I got, but then I completely missed Lewis Michael.

I'm singing the blues on that one as well, I had Lewis Michael but tossed Silent Name at the last minute for #4 (Steel Light) because I thought early speed was not holding up. That was a good example of what a high-stamina turfer can do on the synthetic.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by Jax Cajun

I'm singing the blues on that one as well, I had Lewis Michael but tossed Silent Name at the last minute for #4 (Steel Light) because I thought early speed was not holding up. That was a good example of what a high-stamina turfer can do on the synthetic.

Kurt Becker also botched the call on the Commonwealth a little bit.

I used Steel Light on top, suddenly in the stretch as Silent Name starts drawing off he starts calling about how Steel Light is making some big close, and I keep looking but I'm not seeing it.

He had a brief Battaglia moment.

[MisterB]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I love it when someone posts something indefensible and then whines " Oh, I guess I'm not allowed to have my own opinion ".

How can I be whining, I didn't say I disliked poly track, Andy did, I didn't say to the President of Keeneland, I think your making a mistake, Andy did. You like to pick my pocket, that's all, it is convenient for you, it's your style, not just with me. It is his writing, not mine, I have no defense to make. I am not the back peddler here.

[MisterB]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I love it when someone posts something indefensible and then whines " Oh, I guess I'm not allowed to have my own opinion ".

Let me point out another one of your normal miss quotes.

" Oh, I guess I'm not allowed to have my own opinion ". Like the preverbial change of words theory of writers. Nice try

[blackthroatedwind]

The simple fact is that in every thread here that involves Beyer you cannot help but write some version of the same post criticizing Beyer. You are certainly entitled to your opinions but those of us that disagree, or notice this habit of yours, are also entitled to respond in kind. Your initial post in this thread made assumptions that you do not have any actual knowledge about and made comments which were unrelated to the specific content of the thread. You don't like Beyer. Get in line. You're not forming your own line, as you are part of a great deal of internet hotshots that do the same thing, so please don't present yourself as a leader.

Funny, I read a lot of posts similar to yours on the internet, yet in my many years spent at the racetrack I have never seen ANYONE express these same thoughts to his face. I HAVE seen hundreds, if not thousands, of people compliment him. I wonder why that is.

[MisterB]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The simple fact is that in every thread here that involves Beyer you cannot help but write some version of the same post criticizing Beyer. You are certainly entitled to your opinions but those of us that disagree, or notice this habit of yours, are also entitled to respond in kind. Your initial post in this thread made assumptions that you do not have any actual knowledge about and made comments which were unrelated to the specific content of the thread. You don't like Beyer. Get in line. You're not forming your own line, as you are part of a great deal of internet hotshots that do the same thing, so please don't present yourself as a leader.

Funny, I read a lot of posts similar to yours on the internet, yet in my many years spent at the racetrack I have never seen ANYONE express these same thoughts to his face. I HAVE seen hundreds, if not thousands, of people compliment him. I wonder why that is.

Again, your confused. I never said anything negative about Andy the person or player. I criticize the importance you and millions of others put into Beyers, not Andy Beyer the person. I have no problem going face to face with anyone, and discuss the theories of anything. I read every book Andy wrote, and I like them all, so this is not a personal attack on Mr. Beyer. People post about Beyers, and I counter with my dislike. I think they should know, don't get caught up in the beyer syndrome, it isn't a magic wand for capping horse races. You can't find one thread I started about beyers, or Andy Beyers the person, just replies to people who talk about them all the time, like they are water in a desert.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by MisterB

Again, your confused. I never said anything negative about Andy the person or player. I criticize the importance you and millions of others put into Beyers, not Andy Beyer the person. I have no problem going face to face with anyone, and discuss the theories of anything. I read every book Andy wrote, and I like them all, so this is not a personal attack on Mr. Beyer. People post about Beyers, and I counter with my dislike. I think they should know, don't get caught up in the beyer syndrome, it isn't a magic wand for capping horse races. You can't find one thread I started about beyers, or Andy Beyers the person, just replies to people who talk about them all the time, like they are water in a desert.

I guess it was the first post of yours in THIS thread, which contradicts your thoughts in the above post, that threw me off.

Originally Posted by MisterB

So Andy is frustrated he can't pick a winner, so he is whining to all the public. Everyone has the same perspective as he does. Anyway, when did Andy last pick a derby winner?? I can't seem to remember.

[MisterB]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I guess it was the first post of yours in THIS thread, which contradicts your thoughts in the above post, that threw me off.

As you know, that remark is a long time joke about Andy and the Derby. I bet you even give him a shot here and there.

[blackthroatedwind]

And, by the way, " the importance that I put in the Beyers "? I have stated here many times that Beyer speed figures are a very small part of my handicapping and that, at best, I use them as a guide. Since you obviously have taken little, or no, notice to my posts about handicapping it seems pretty presumptuous of you to make these comments. What this really seems to be is an example of you posting whatever suits your agenda with little regard to truth.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by MisterB

As you know, that remark is a long time joke about Andy and the Derby. I bet you even give him a shot here and there.

No, what it is is a direct contradiction to claiming you never said anything about him as a player ( as is the rest of your post ).

And, once again, no I don't " give him a shot here and there " about such a nonsensical thought. Please, don't assume to know things, as that just veers off into areas you can't possibly know about.