Clinton Portis

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by FGFan

Curious I have never known a PETA person that supports Horseracing, isn't it against the rules. And in many states dogs and domestic animals including livestock are classified as chattel/property. I am also in breed rescue, I save the power breeds. But I am in no way a supporter of PETA, HSUS, or any of the other animal RIGHTS, not welfare but animal RIGHTS groups.
Albeit the article/interview is ridiculous, dog fighting is a felony period, even in our heathen state of Louisiana.
It is also serious stuff that animal rights groups want to take away many of our rights around the world.
I just don't get PETA and enjoying horseracing, best be careful they may take your card away. OH yeah, they just want your money.
And isn't PETA that just went to court for killing strays...hmmmmm

Any organization as large as PETA is gonna earn the occasional black-eye, sure they have put down large numbers of animals at times and unfortunately aren't always open and honest about it, but the coy remarks are missing the point...PETA works to improve the treatment of animals worldwide. Saying that I shouldn't support them cause they aren't perfect is ridiculous, using that standard nobody could support ANY organization! And I know lots of PETA members who enjoy horseracing, within PETA there are folks who want more humane treatment of animals, those who support the cause of animal rights, folks who want significant restrictions on personal liberties and folks who think it's morally wrong to kill a fly or bee. Just like folks who call themselves christians...there are those who use the bible as a guide and those who demand word-for-word compliance, and those that fall in the wide gap in between. The fact that the laws of man in many cases relegate animals to the classification of "property" doesn't make it right!

[FGFan]

PETA works to improve the treatment of animals worldwide.

At the expense of our own rights. PETA is a fanatical group that relies on psuedo terrorist behavior. As a matter of fact they are closely linked to ALF, the group that will blow up labs that do medical research, on the FBI worst domestic terrorism group along with ELF. Kind of like the pro-life people killing abortion Drs. Do what I say not what I do.
You brought up PETA, this thread started as dog fighting. Unfortunately even in the Animal Rights world PETA is very controversial.
Here's the links, let people decide for themselves.
http://www.peta.org/
http://www.earthliberationfront.com/
http://www.animalliberationfront.com/
I find them scary.
I am very much a proponent of free speech and thought, but in groups like PETA unless one follows their propoganda you are wrong.
In the aftermath of Katrina I had an upclose look at many of the groups such as PETA, who were not welcomed by any of the other animal rights groups.
I am all for animal welfare, but I draw the line at animal rights, especially groups that are closely linked to domestic terrorism.
Somehow I just can't see how PETA would tolerate horseracing, they are against the exploitation of animals, I would think any type of horseracing would be considered exploitation.
But back to the Vick thing, as has been said, it was a stupid comment, and if found guilty of dog fighting he will be convicted of a felony. You can police and judicate by laws, but you can't police stupid.
To each their own if you support PETA that is your choice, I just believe they are a fanatical group. There are better animal groups one could support.
I still say they would take away your card if they found you betting on horses.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by FGFan

PETA works to improve the treatment of animals worldwide.

At the expense of our own rights. PETA is a fanatical group that relies on psuedo terrorist behavior. As a matter of fact they are closely linked to ALF, the group that will blow up labs that do medical research, on the FBI worst domestic terrorism group along with ELF. Kind of like the pro-life people killing abortion Drs. Do what I say not what I do.
You brought up PETA, this thread started as dog fighting. Unfortunately even in the Animal Rights world PETA is very controversial.
Here's the links, let people decide for themselves.
http://www.peta.org/
http://www.earthliberationfront.com/
http://www.animalliberationfront.com/
I find them scary.
I am very much a proponent of free speech and thought, but in groups like PETA unless one follows their propoganda you are wrong.
In the aftermath of Katrina I had an upclose look at many of the groups such as PETA, who were not welcomed by any of the other animal rights groups.
I am all for animal welfare, but I draw the line at animal rights, especially groups that are closely linked to domestic terrorism.
Somehow I just can't see how PETA would tolerate horseracing, they are against the exploitation of animals, I would think any type of horseracing would be considered exploitation.
But back to the Vick thing, as has been said, it was a stupid comment, and if found guilty of dog fighting he will be convicted of a felony. You can police and judicate by laws, but you can't police stupid.
To each their own if you support PETA that is your choice, I just believe they are a fanatical group. There are better animal groups one could support.
I still say they would take away your card if they found you betting on horses.

Well, they haven't so far and I've been pretty outspoken about my support (as long as I feel folks are really trying to make the sport safer and that most really do love their horses...my personal experience teaches me that both are true). I think you are oversimplifying things...not all PETA members oppose horse racing! You bring up anti-abortion folks killing abortion doctors...that's a rather complex philosophical discussion...on the old ESPN board I once presented the argument for same based on logic and moral judgement...I was attacked (even though I clearly said it wasn't MY position) but the argument was never refuted. You use the term "pro-life", I prefer "anti-abortion" because just as most all people are "pro-life", most are also "pro-choice" when these terms are used in the broad sense...anyway, dog fighting is morally wrong imo!

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

I respect your efforts! Eating is sorta necessary and, by natural evolution, mankind is a carnivorous species, we may find it enjoyable but it is also necessary. Whether our current President is a serial killer or not depends on who you talk to (DTS would say yes) but clearly I'm not saying killing frogs constitutes serial killing...I merely stated the fact that many start with domestic animals before moving on to human prey...in fact, when we looked at backgrounds of sociopathic patients, we always started with whether there was animal abuse.

Yup! He is!
He's also a war criminal.
How can so many people find sympathy for dogs but not children that have to deal with mines, cluster bombs, and the torture and death of their parents?

[Danzig]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/6852866

vick a 'heavyweight' in dog fighting.....

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Saw that this morning. That Vick's a real great guy. Hopefully Goodell doesn't give Vick a pass here.

Again, he hasn't even been charged yet and he's innocent until proven guilty but IF this report is true, I stand behind my original point that a lifetime ban must be imposed!

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Somer, I hear what you are saying and all, but my mind is made up. I don't have a lot of faith in the justice system, see OJ Simpson, but even after the initial report came out, Vick has been an a sshole. Showing absolutely no class, not that I expected anything else. Trying to play the poor me game. It's no coincidence that his name is constantly in the press negatively, usually where there's smoke, there's fire.

I know, but being a jerk doesn't make him guilty of dog fighting...certainly he's acting the part and I'm afraid dog fighting among NFL athletes may be more common than we dare think...I certainly won't be surprised if appearances preceed guilt here BUT he still has to be convicted. OJ was another story...I have my personal thoughts about his guilt/innocence but I really think I'd have had trouble voting guilty based on the performance of the prosecution...they simply blew what appeared a lock conviction.

[skippy3481]

Somer why should he be banned from the nfl for this. What makes this felony any worse then the other random felonies that many nfl players commit. Personally, I think the guy is a complete ass, but i fail to see why conviction for dog fighting should get him banned from his job.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by skippy3481

Somer why should he be banned from the nfl for this. What makes this felony any worse then the other random felonies that many nfl players commit. Personally, I think the guy is a complete ass, but i fail to see why conviction for dog fighting should get him banned from his job.

Two points here...I think any felony conviction should exclude a player from playing in the NFL (I would exclude convictions prior to that player joining the league...considering them on an individual basis)...if you can't behave in a civilized manner, I see no reason why the NFL should employ you. Secondly, the penalty in Va for this crime is 5 years...if convicted I see no reason why that shouldn't be his sentence. I worked all my life in the social service field...I had to undergo background checks every time I changed employers and believe me, if I was convicted of a felony while employed..I'd have been history. I struggled with a modest income...why should some guy making millions be held to a lower standard? Nobody has a "right" to play pro ball, if the NFL is serious about cleaning up it's house, it has to make folks responsible for their behavior!

[Samarta]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Two points here...I think any felony conviction should exclude a player from playing in the NFL (I would exclude convictions prior to that player joining the league...considering them on an individual basis)...if you can't behave in a civilized manner, I see no reason why the NFL should employ you. Secondly, the penalty in Va for this crime is 5 years...if convicted I see no reason why that shouldn't be his sentence. I worked all my life in the social service field...I had to undergo background checks every time I changed employers and believe me, if I was convicted of a felony while employed..I'd have been history. I struggled with a modest income...why should some guy making millions be held to a lower standard? Nobody has a "right" to play pro ball, if the NFL is serious about cleaning up it's house, it has to make folks responsible for their behavior!

now, you know I've been right with ya on this one, but I don't know if he deserves a ban or not....Now if he is charged, convicted, and is banned as part of the sentence, I have no problem with that.....but when you talk about employment, unless it's a bonding issue or privacy issue, I don't think he can be banned....I don't know though, I'm the ops guy, not the HR person....

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Samarta

now, you know I've been right with ya on this one, but I don't know if he deserves a ban or not....Now if he is charged, convicted, and is banned as part of the sentence, I have no problem with that.....but when you talk about employment, unless it's a bonding issue or privacy issue, I don't think he can be banned....I don't know though, I'm the ops guy, not the HR person....

And you may be right, I don't know how the contracts are worded. Many teams do have a "morals clause" in there somewhere, Atlanta could probably legally release him and there is no "right" to be picked up by another team but I suspect a formal ban might have to be put into policy with the Union's OK and that would probably be "in the future" so Vick might skate. I just think "thug" behavior cannot be tolerated...abuse of women, gun charges, any violent crime that rises to the felony level is a personal choice...you can either play pro ball or be a thug...your choice!

[skippy3481]

Somer,
First the NFL is not paying these players, the individual teams are. Second, If he is convicted, he'll most likely end up in jail and that sentence may be enough for individual teams to pass on certain players. I don't think that having a felony should get anyone banned from playing pro ball of any kind.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by skippy3481

Somer,
First the NFL is not paying these players, the individual teams are. Second, If he is convicted, he'll most likely end up in jail and that sentence may be enough for individual teams to pass on certain players. I don't think that having a felony should get anyone banned from playing pro ball of any kind.

That's cool...we disagree! I know the individual teams pay their players but they have a Commish for a reason.

[skippy3481]

Yup we must agree to disagree. Although i am all for the commish cleaning up the game. People that are arrested 3 or 4 times in a year are problematic for the league. All these players should hire drivers...

[Samarta]

they should throw Vick and Portis in a ring and let them fight it out to see who gets to stay....loser goes home....

[alysheba4]

i would rather strap some nice porterhouses on their bodies and let the dogs at those aholes........