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#101
05-30-2007, 11:07 PM
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Bird, of course was the biggest reason, but the Celts self imposed chaos of the previous 2 seasons with coaching changes, trades, ownership upheaval made them worse than they really were. Dont forget that there were 4 Hall of Famers on the roster in Birds first year. The Cavs on the other hand were just plain bad. 17-65 is really bad. That was with Carlos Boozer, Ilguakas, Dejuan Wagner, and Ricky Davis. They added Lebron and Jeff Mcginnis subtracted Davis and improved 18 games with Paul Silas as coach. Adding Jeff McGinnis and improving is a feat in itself. 
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#102
05-30-2007, 11:18 PM
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#103
05-30-2007, 11:29 PM
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rookie 21.3 47% 10 4.5 143 53 263 year 2 21.2 47% 10.7 5.5 161 63 289 year 3 22.9 50% 10.9 5.8 143 66 254 year 4 23.6 50% 11 5.8 148 71 240 LeBron rookie 20.9 41% 5.5 5.9 130 58 273 year 2 27.2 47% 7.4 7.2 177 52 262 year 3 31.4 48% 7.1 6.6 123 66 260 year 4 27.3 48% 7.1 7.0 125 55 250 seems like a pretty close comparison when you consider Bird was 3 years older at every stage...
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#104
05-30-2007, 11:29 PM
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As much as I hated him. Celtics were nothing without Bird. A case can be made for Bird helping make Parrish, McHale great players. I dont think one can say the reverse. Bird made the whole thing work.
How far would the Spurs go without Duncan? The Spurs would have ZERO championships. Would Parker and Ginobili ever have made an Allstar team... I doubt it. David Robinson knows he would probably not have made the top 50 alltime list without a championship. And that championship in 1999, required a great rookie. Same with Bird. McHale championships without Bird? I dont think so.
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#105
05-30-2007, 11:36 PM
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#106
05-30-2007, 11:41 PM
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#108
05-31-2007, 12:40 AM
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Again. This is from a person who absolutley hated Bird... From the depths of my soul. He was a trash talker, dirty (at the appropriate times), but so unique. Bird showed that a forward could control a game. Anytime the Celtics had to have something done the ball was in his hands. He was the Man on that team. Its so obvious to me. Bird was a revolution as was Magic. They changed the game. They played their positions in such a diff. manner than they had ever been played before. So even though they may not have been Michael, they had as much impact on the way the game is played. Magic a 6' 9" Point??????? are you kidding. He took his idol, George Gervin, to a completely diff. level. (Gervin being one of the first tall guards that had a huge impact on the old ways of thinking... you cant be a guard, you are too tall). And his complete unselfishness and leadership made the Lakers. Then the guy plays CENTER when Kareem is hurt and scores forty against the sixers. GOOD LORD! Bird. Controlled the flow of a game at a position that was not supposed to handle the ball that much. His movement without the ball, his passing, his superior intuition, made for a type of forward I doubt we see again. For God's sake he would lead the Celtics in rebounding and assists if he was not shooting well. He found some way to impact every important game.
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#109
05-31-2007, 04:39 AM
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Pat...the facts I was referring to where the ones Chuck was stating about the changes in coaching and, in part, the role players involved. I agree with you on the fact that without Bird, the Celtics win nothing. I doubt there is a bigger Larry Bird fan alive than me. I lived and died with the Celtics of the 80's and can honestly say that I have not watched a single NBA game, from start to finish, since LB retired. To compare Larry and Magic to MJ is deceptive. Larry and Magic were the definition of TEAM players. I like MJ (he is a Tarheel  ), but, IMO, he revolutionized the individual aspect of the game...and I mean that in a very negative context. His style of play has produced a generation of NBA players that are strictly interested in SELF...there is no team concept anymore.
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#110
05-31-2007, 12:26 PM
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#111
05-31-2007, 01:24 PM
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#112
05-31-2007, 01:27 PM
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#113
05-31-2007, 01:34 PM
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Kev actually there was this thing called the ABA that predated MJ with that style of play along with the police blotter style of post game play...
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#114
05-31-2007, 01:34 PM
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I know I am jumping in this argument late but I will tell you based on my theory to be a great player in the NBA you have to make the players around you better and to me Magic, Larry and MJ all made the players around them better, that is why I dislike Kobe so much he doesnt make anyone around him better only himself, Lebron makes the players around him better in my opinion. The other night I never thought I would watch a player come close to being what Magic was like on the court but Lebron came close that is the first time since Magic retired that I have thought that about another NBA player.
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#115
05-31-2007, 05:34 PM
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__________________
The Main Course...the chosen or frozen entree?!
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#116
05-31-2007, 06:11 PM
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Chuck, I know all about the ABA. My parents used to live within 5 minutes walking distance of where the Virginia Squires used to play. They had the privelage of watching Dr. J play...before he was Dr. J
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#117
05-31-2007, 06:13 PM
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Sorry if that came across the wrong way. I think Lebron has more than a nice game...he is one of the few that I can sit down and actually watched play for more than 5 minutes.
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#118
05-31-2007, 06:14 PM
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#119
05-31-2007, 06:17 PM
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Chuck, early in his career, I think MJ was a very individualistic, simply because he had to be. Not until later in his career did he begin to make his teammates better...because he finally had teammates that could play. But, IMO, by then, he had stamped himself a great individual player and the kids growing up watching him wanted the same type of star power and sensed that the individual style of play vs. the team style of play was the way to achieve that. Had those same kids payed more attention to the TEAM aspect of his game later in his career, I have to believe that the NBA would not be in the sad state of affairs that it is today.
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