Is Grasshopper a walk over? - Page 2

jballscalls · #21 09-20-2007, 02:21 AM

Good luck on Saturday with the Super Derby Travis!!

zippyneedsawin · #22 09-20-2007, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

That is a pretty good field...

I love Triumph!! Nice one!

Slewbopper · #23 09-20-2007, 07:48 PM

[quote=King Glorious]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slewbopper

I've understood and agreed wth the shortening of those other races though. They are run closer to the BC and they were having horrible success as preps for the BC races. The Vosburgh and JCGC especially were routinely sending their winners to the BC to get pounded at low odds. I don't think it's the fragile horses that have caused that though. I feel it was because of the timing and the toughness of those races. For a long time, those races were THE races to point for in their respective divisions and sort of like the Arc de Triomphe, it's hard to have a horse at his peak for a race.....and then ask them to repeat it. The Super Derby didn't have that problem though. It was far enough in advance of the BC that there was time to recover from the 10f distance and it wasn't such a tough race depth wise that a horse had to extend himself to win. It was a top race but since the BC started, it was clearly a prep race while the NY races were more objective races than preps.

Flashback 1980. A horse named Temperance Hill won the Belmont at 53/1. He also won the Travers, the initial running of the 1 1/4 mile Super Derby and the Jockey Club Gold Cup. 2 1 1/4 mile races and 2 1 1/2 mile races...on the dirt. Not a bad season. There was another horse running that year that he never faced though that took away the big honor...HOY, although he never won at 1 1/2

Slewbopper · #24 09-20-2007, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

Yea, who is Grasshopper?

A horse for course....maybe

blackthroatedwind · #25 09-20-2007, 07:58 PM

There are at least two races being run in this Super Derby and Grasshopper is the lone horse in his. The rest may or may not be competitive with each other but Grasshopper towers over them.

I know it's obvious but why are others even talking about hopelessly overmatched horses?

Slewbopper · #26 09-20-2007, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

There are at least two races being run in this Super Derby and Grasshopper is the lone horse in his. The rest may or may not be competitive with each other but Grasshopper towers over them.

I know it's obvious but why are others even talking about hopelessly overmatched horses?

He has beaten CPWest and that Phipps horse

letswastemoney · #27 09-20-2007, 08:06 PM

Past the Point has a shot

Bobby Fischer · #28 09-20-2007, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

normally i'd have to agree with you, just because he's one of the best bred horses on the planet, but man, he's trained by harty!!

Whats your book on Harty Eoin?

I don't know a whole lot about him, other than he seems to get some decent Darley horses now and then. I haven't noticed him developing that many stakes horses.

#29 09-20-2007, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby Fischer

Whats your book on Harty Eoin?

I don't know a whole lot about him, other than he seems to get some decent Darley horses now and then. I haven't noticed him developing that many stakes horses.

He's the dubya of horse training.

blackthroatedwind · #30 09-20-2007, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

Past the Point has a shot

Not in a fairly run race he doesn't.

rgustafson · #31 09-20-2007, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

There are at least two races being run in this Super Derby and Grasshopper is the lone horse in his. The rest may or may not be competitive with each other but Grasshopper towers over them.

I know it's obvious but why are others even talking about hopelessly overmatched horses?

If the pinheads are idiots(on occaision this happens) and they all go out to beat Hell from the start, Going Ballistic might nail Grasshopper on the wire.

blackthroatedwind · #32 09-20-2007, 08:56 PM

Grasshopper rates just fine and is in a completely different world that the decidedly mediocre Going Ballistic. He can only be second, and may be, if two many others move too soon. But, without an incident, he can't beat Grasshopper.

I think Grasshopper's talent is being massively undervalued by some here. he's VERY good.

ArlJim78 · #33 09-20-2007, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Grasshopper rates just fine and is in a completely different world that the decidedly mediocre Going Ballistic. He can only be second, and may be, if two many others move too soon. But, without an incident, he can't beat Grasshopper.

I think Grasshopper's talent is being massively undervalued by some here. he's VERY good.

there are a few of us here that are very high on him. i bet him to win the travers cause i thought that highly of him.

blackthroatedwind · #34 09-20-2007, 09:08 PM

Not only do I think Grasshopper is very good, I also think his competition in the Super Derby is extraordinarily weak, and just don't see him losing.

I guess he's another horse who people think may bounce.....you know like Lawyer Ron in the Woodward.

ArlJim78 · #35 09-20-2007, 09:13 PM

several people were telling me that Grasshopper would bounce in the Travers, you know, because he was coming off of a big top.

blackthroatedwind · #36 09-20-2007, 09:19 PM

They all bounce.....except when they don't.

Do Neil Howard's horses bounce like horses from other trainers?

Benny Leger · #37 09-20-2007, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cardus

The restaurant scene (Sheen holding the menu upside down): "Got any chili dogs over there?"

Funny movie.

"f_ck you JoBoo....if you no help me...I do it myself"

I love that movie!!!

miraja2 · #38 09-20-2007, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

There are at least two races being run in this Super Derby and Grasshopper is the lone horse in his. The rest may or may not be competitive with each other but Grasshopper towers over them.

I know it's obvious but why are others even talking about hopelessly overmatched horses?

You are probably right about this. I might just be crazy to try to beat him here, but something about his resume just doesn't seem to justify the proabably insane odds he will be on Saturday. And just for the record, my decision to play against him, doesn't have anything to do with the bounce theory. I have never put much stock in that theory.
Other than the basic points I have already articulated in this thread, I think the fact that a horse who has never won a stakes race, and has actually never even run a good race outside of Saratoga will be an overwhelming odds-on favorite is a bit much. He certainly gave Street Sense a good battle in the Travers, but I just think that battling a hanger (even a really good hanger like Street Sense) tends to lead to an overrated performance.
Is his competition daunting? Not at all. It isn't really even average, but I think the race might unfold in such a way that he is asked to do something he simply hasn't done before. Is he good enough to do that? Probably, but I just think the odds will be a little out of whack.
By the way btw, it is good to have you back on the board.

SniperSB23 · #39 09-20-2007, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miraja2

You are probably right about this. I might just be crazy to try to beat him here, but something about his resume just doesn't seem to justify the proabably insane odds he will be on Saturday. And just for the record, my decision to play against him, doesn't have anything to do with the bounce theory. I have never put much stock in that theory.
Other than the basic points I have already articulated in this thread, I think the fact that a horse who has never won a stakes race, and has actually never even run a good race outside of Saratoga will be an overwhelming odds-on favorite is a bit much. He certainly gave Street Sense a good battle in the Travers, but I just think that battling a hanger (even a really good hanger like Street Sense) tends to lead to an overrated performance.
Is his competition daunting? Not at all. It isn't really even average, but I think the race might unfold in such a way that he is asked to do something he simply hasn't done before. Is he good enough to do that? Probably, but I just think the odds will be a little out of whack.
By the way btw, it is good to have you back on the board.

What would he need to do that he hasn't done before?

miraja2 · #40 09-20-2007, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

there are a few of us here that are very high on him. i bet him to win the travers cause i thought that highly of him.

As I said at the time, I believe Street Sense was actually a good play in the Travers, even at those low odds. I probably underestimated Grasshopper that day, and I may be doing it again in this one, but trying to beat him here makes a lot more sense to me than trying to beat Street Sense in the Travers. I felt I was almost sure that I knew how Street Sense would perform going into that race based on his previous performances at that track and at that distance. I have a lot more questions about how Grasshopper will perform on Saturday. How will he fare in a two-turn race with semi-fast early fractions? Will he be able to repeat his Saratoga performances on another track? The answers are probably yes, but at odds-on I think I'll take a shot.