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#41
07-20-2006, 11:20 AM
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[screams, gnashing of teeth, hairing being pulled] MaresPRODUCE offspring! stallions SIRE offspring, THAT IS WHY THEY ARE CALLED THE SIRE! she yelled. Sorry, pet peeve activated. Boudoir II, granddam of Flower Bowl was the foundress of this family; her son Your Host sired HotY Kelso among others, daughter Your Hostess produced G1-type winners T.V. Commercial and Corragioso and was granddam of Majestic Prince, et. al. A lot more major winners in this line in later generations and other branches. Actually, Glowing Tribute is yet another member of the La Troienne tribe. The great racemare Dahlia turned into a top producer; she had 4 G1 winners, and two G2 winners (one of them G1-placed), plus a G1-placed horse who didn't win a stakes, and a listed-placed filly. Six foals who could compete at the G1 level is pretty good in my book. Selene's sons Hyperion, Sickle, Pharamond II, and Hunter's Moon (a top sire in Argentina) are all deeply imbedded in huge numbers of pedigrees; it would be hard to find a US pedigree without Selene's name in it somewhere. Plucky Liege is a mare a lot of you haven't heard of, but she produced 3 classic winners - Sir Gallahad III, Bois Roussel, and Admiral Drake - all of whom became influential sires. So did Sir G's little brother Bull Dog, sire of Bull Lea, et. al. But my favorite broodmare of all time was Maggie B. B. She foaled the first US-bred winner of the Derby at Epsom, Iroquois (in 1881 - he also won the St. Leger); a Belmont winner, Panique; a Preakness winner, Harold; plus two other SWs, and founded one of the finest and most prolific female families in North American breeding history. Proper Reality, Thirty Slews, Cryptoclearance, Harlan's Holiday, Mystery Giver, French Deputy, Bet on Sunshine, Safely Kept, Film Maker, Life's Magic, Dubai Millennium, Dixie Union, Lemons Forever, Sinister Minister..., these are some of her recent descendents you may be familiar with. 
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#42
07-20-2006, 12:51 PM
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Two other influential mares were Bourtai ... who founded the line which produced all those Levee, Bayou, Dike, Delta horses ... and ... Hildene ... the blind mare who produced Hill Prince, Prince Hill, Third Brother, and First Landing ... though neither of these two families are as important as they once were.
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#43
07-20-2006, 12:54 PM
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... though it all went bad when Bull Lea turned out to be the worst sire of sires in world history.
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#44
07-20-2006, 07:26 PM
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As to Plucky Liege's sons, Sir Gallahad III was leading US sire (4 times to Bull Dog's once) and leading broodmare sire (12 times to Bull Dog's 3), sired a Triple Crown winner and two other Kentucky Derby winners, while Bull Dog sired no winners of Triple Crown races. Bull Dog was not nearly as good a racehorse as Plucky Liege's other 3 sons. Bois Roussel and Admiral Drake stood in Europe and sired classic winners there, had minimal impact on this continent.
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#45
07-20-2006, 09:10 PM
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You may want to re-read my post ... I didn't say Bull Lea wasn't a good sire ... I said he was the worst sire of sires in world history. You see ... a sire is like a daddy ... and a sire of sires is like a grandpa. And it wasn't just Citation who was a failure at stud ... every single one of Bull Lea's sons was a catastrophe as a stallion. The "Bull Lea line" began and ended with ... Bull Lea. Do you understand that ... or shall I try to explain it some more?
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#46
07-20-2006, 09:20 PM
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Please re-read my post ... I didn't say that Bull Dog was as good a sire of runners as his brother, Sir Gallahad ... nor that Bull Dog was a good race horse. What I said was "for a while" he was the "most important" of Plucky Liege's offspring. That "while" being the 1940's and 1950's ... when Bull Dog's son Bull Lea was cranking out champions as though he were an assembly line. But the "assembly line" came to a screeching halt ... when all of Bull Lea's sons were failures at stud. (Oh ... but you already knew that from my previous post.) Do you understand that ... or shall I try to explain it some more?
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#47
07-20-2006, 09:34 PM
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#48
07-20-2006, 09:40 PM
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Been an interesting topic/thread to read...I agree with most that the single most influential mare in history has to be La Troienne...no other can compare. Not sure if anybody posted the link to the Reines-de-Course site so:
http://www.reines-de-course.com/ I guess one could argue the importance of Spilletta...certainly her contribution was rather important...
__________________
"Always be yourself...unless you suck!"
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#49
07-20-2006, 09:43 PM
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... who were grandfather and grandson ... yikes !!! ... what a randy group !!!
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#50
07-20-2006, 10:04 PM
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... remember my first post on this thread ... where I said it was Mumtaz Mahal? If you're just looking at tail-female ... then La Troienne is it ... but ... ... if you're looking at overall impact on the breed ... it's Mumtaz Mahal ... "The Flying Filly" ... by two furlongs Her influence through male lines is pervasive ... through Mahmoud, Gallant Man, Nasrullah, Royal Charger, My Babu, Northern Dancer, Rahy, St. Ballado, and many more ... and a whole squadron of stakes-producing broodmares.
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#51
07-20-2006, 10:10 PM
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__________________
"Always be yourself...unless you suck!"
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#52
07-20-2006, 10:17 PM
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What difference does it make, top or bottom? I gotta very likely answer I believe.
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#53
07-20-2006, 10:32 PM
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This answer is EASY!!!
Best Broodmare of all time is my Mom....
1 son and three daughters, 3 college educations and the other about to start college and the most astonishing thing in today's world, NO ARRESTS.
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#54
07-20-2006, 10:48 PM
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Im gonna go call my wife a broodmare and see what happens.
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#57
07-21-2006, 08:55 AM
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US-bred Frizette was the foundation of the Boussac stud, producing 3 SWs and founding a mighty family whose members include the great sire Tourbillon, the champion sprinter Myrtlewood (ancestress of Seattle Slew and Mr. Prospector)..., well, you get the picture. You want to get technical, Mumtaz Mahal's mum Lady Josephine deserves some of the credit; she produced not only Mumtaz Mahal but Lady Juror, dam of 6 SWs including the important sire Fair Trial and the dam of even more important sire Tudor Minstrel. In curiosity I took a look at Rahy and found a plethora of important broodmares and family founders, not just Mumtaz Mahal. He has multiple crosses of Selene. Black Ray, and Plucky Liege, also Alcibiades, Pink Domino, La Grelee, Uganda, Lady Juror, Lavendula, Baton Rouge, Herodias, Mother Goose, La Troienne, Betty Derr, Exalted, Vaila, and Cinna, all of whom have had an important influence on the breed.
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#58
07-21-2006, 09:18 AM
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Pedigree ANN:
What the diff.? Female on the top or bottom and why? Just trying to get a feel if anyone on the thread likes genetics, not just family trees.
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#59
07-21-2006, 09:24 AM
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I DID misread the post as sire, not sire of sires. However, for Bull Lea, I must plead special circumstances.
Bull Lea's sons included several high-profile runners who 'failed at stud', like Citation (although he did sire a Preakness winner and a champion, the filly Silver Spoon) but actually few of them stayed in the US. Coaltown was shipped to France for stud, Hill Gail went to Ireland and sired a classic winner, Iron Liege had subnormal fertility but sired SWs in France and Japan. Some were decent sires, like Bull Page in Canada, regional sires like Trentonian and Prophets Thumb. But looking through the list of Bull Lea's SWs I was surprised at the proportion of them that were fillies and geldings (like the great Armed). He didn't churn out the sire prospects the way Northern Dancer did; the Dancer also had his share of high-profile 'failures' (Viceregal, Lomond, Danzatore, Shareef Dancer, Secreto) but they were overshadowed by his many successes. Last edited by Pedigree Ann : 07-21-2006 at 09:28 AM.
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#60
07-21-2006, 09:32 AM
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Of course I always add she has great conformation....
__________________
“To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.” Thomas Jefferson
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