HOF First Time Nominees...cough, cough

[SentToStud]

How the hell is Ryne Sandberg in the Hall of Fame?

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi...i?n1=sandbry01

Aside from being the worst clutch hitter in the HoF, I never, not once, saw him dive for a ball. No wonder his wife left him for Dave Martinez.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi...i?n1=carewro01

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi...i?n1=boggswa01

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi...i?n1=garvest01

If you go to the middle of the page you can get the players situational hitting numbers. You will find both Carew and Boggs have much higher batting averages than Garvey in clutch situations. As a matter of fact Garvey hit about the same regardless of situation with his lowest average being late innings with the score tied.

Well, Margot Adams or whatever her name was claimed Garvey was much, much better at certain things than Wade Boggs was (alledgedly). Does that improve his HOF status?? Garvey HOF??? I guess I could claim George Hendrick is a hall of famer as well.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

Well, Margot Adams or whatever her name was claimed Garvey was much, much better at certain things than Wade Boggs was (alledgedly). Does that improve his HOF status?? Garvey HOF??? I guess I could claim George Hendrick is a hall of famer as well.

No,it hurt his HOF status.The more I look at it,the more obscene it is that Tony Perez got in.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

No,it hurt his HOF status.The more I look at it,the more obscene it is that Tony Perez got in.

I agree with that. I don't think Perez is hall of fame material, him and Garvey are similar so I guess viewing it that way Garvey deserves it...but to me Perez doesn't belong there so Garvey doesn't either. I think Jim Rice was far better than either of them. They were similar in that both players declined pretty substantially after their 30th birthday or very shortly thereafter.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

No,it hurt his HOF status.The more I look at it,the more obscene it is that Tony Perez got in.

This may be the first lucid thing you have said in this thread. I totally agree with you.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

I agree with that. I don't think Perez is hall of fame material, him and Garvey are similar so I guess viewing it that way Garvey deserves it...but to me Perez doesn't belong there so Garvey doesn't either. I think Jim Rice was far better than either of them. They were similar in that both players declined pretty substantially after their 30th birthday or very shortly thereafter.

No,Garvey and Tony Perez aren't similar.Garvey has a League MVP award.Perez has none.Garvey started in the Allstar Game 9 times.Perez started just once.Garvey hit .338 in the post season(55 games.)Perez hit .238 in the post season(47 games.)Garvey hit .393 in Allstar games.Perez hit 0.125 in AllSTAR GAMES.Garvey has 2 Allstar Game MVP Awards.Perez has 1 of them(his only Allstar hit was a HR IN THE 15TH INNING that won the game.his 1 other at bat in the game was a strike out.)The game ended 2-1..They had to give it to somebody.Garvey's career batting average is .294,and Perez' is .279.Garvey has 2 NLCS MVP awards.Perez has zero.One of them is in the Hall, and the other isn't.No,they are not similar.Look at his yearly accomplishments:The only thing Perez ever led the league in is Double plays that he grounded intp.Garvey twice led the league in hits.6 years Garvey led the league in games played.He was 2nd in games played in 2 other years.Perez didn't accomplish anything other than that Allstar game MVP(WHICH HE GOT WITH 1 HIT.) I haven't a clue why he is in the HOF.IT'S PATHETIC.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/p/perezto01.shtml

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

No,Garvey and Tony Perez aren't similar.Garvey has a League MVP award.Perez has none.Garvey started in the Allstar Game 9 times.Perez started just once.Garvey hit .338 in the post season(55 games.)Perez hit .238 in the post season(47 games.)Garvey hit .393 in Allstar games.Perez hit 0.125 in AllSTAR GAMES.Garvey has 2 Allstar Game MVP Awards.Perez has 1 of them(his only Allstar hit was a HR IN THE 15TH INNING that won the game.his 1 other at bat in the game was a strike out.)The game ended 2-1..They had to give it to somebody.Garvey's career batting average is .294,and Perez' is .279.Garvey has 2 NLCS MVP awards.Perez has zero.One of them is in the Hall, and the other isn't.No,they are not similar.Look at his yearly accomplishments:The only thing Perez ever led the league in is Double plays that he grounded intp.Garvey twice led the league in hits.6 years Garvey led the league in games played.He was 2nd in games played in 2 other years.Perez didn't accomplish anything other than that Allstar game MVP(WHICH HE GOT WITH 1 HIT.) I haven't a clue why he is in the HOF.IT'S PATHETIC.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/p/perezto01.shtml

You're being selective with your stats. Perez had much more power (over 100 more HRs than Garvey and a better OBP (15 points higher which far outweighs Garvey's 15 point higher BA...higher slugging PCT as well.)) I could care less about All Star game accomplishments. Garvey did a couple things better than Perez...and Perez did a few things better than Garvey. I stand by my statement that they were similar players whose overall accomplishments were similar. I don't think either one is a hall of famer. Both played on the two best teams in the NL in the 70s...Reds and Dodgers. Both played in 5 World Series' with two teams. Perez won 2, Garvey won 1. I mean you can fix their stats however you want to. You mention postseason batting average....but I can just as easily say Perez drove in 11 runs in World Series play nearly doubling Garvey's total of 6. Both were very good players who I think are not hall of fame players.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

You're being selective with your stats. Perez had much more power (over 100 more HRs than Garvey and a better OBP (15 points higher which far outweighs Garvey's 15 point higher BA...higher slugging PCT as well.)) I could care less about All Star game accomplishments. Garvey did a couple things better than Perez...and Perez did a few things better than Garvey. I stand by my statement that they were similar players whose overall accomplishments were similar. I don't think either one is a hall of famer. Both played on the two best teams in the NL in the 70s...Reds and Dodgers. Both played in 5 World Series' with two teams. Perez won 2, Garvey won 1. I mean you can fix their stats however you want to. You mention postseason batting average....but I can just as easily say Perez drove in 11 runs in World Series play nearly doubling Garvey's total of 6. Both were very good players who I think are not hall of fame players.

Good Points.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Good Points.

Got a Grade 1 yet?

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

You're being selective with your stats. Perez had much more power (over 100 more HRs than Garvey and a better OBP (15 points higher which far outweighs Garvey's 15 point higher BA...higher slugging PCT as well.)) I could care less about All Star game accomplishments. Garvey did a couple things better than Perez...and Perez did a few things better than Garvey. I stand by my statement that they were similar players whose overall accomplishments were similar. I don't think either one is a hall of famer. Both played on the two best teams in the NL in the 70s...Reds and Dodgers. Both played in 5 World Series' with two teams. Perez won 2, Garvey won 1. I mean you can fix their stats however you want to. You mention postseason batting average....but I can just as easily say Perez drove in 11 runs in World Series play nearly doubling Garvey's total of 6. Both were very good players who I think are not hall of fame players.

This is borderline retarded .Garvey hit .318
in the World Series. Perez hit .242 in the World Series.That's an 76 point difference.Anybody knows Cincy was a powerful offensive team,and the Dodgers were a mainly pitching team.In that situation what would you expect would happen to RBI.I mean ,hell Garvey has 36 World Series Hits versus Perez' 23.They both played in 5 world Series.Dodgers choked in WORLD SERIES in 74,77,78..So not many people to knock in.Garvey hit .356 in the NLCS VERSUS PEREZ' .234.GARVEY HAD 21 RBI VERSUS PEREZ 14.GARVEY HAD 8 NLCS HOME RUNS VERSUS 3 FOR PEREZ.Anybody who played for Cincy in the 70's is gunna get a huge RBI bias in stats.Garvey had 32 nlcs hits versus 18 for Perez.Garvey hit 76 points better than him in the World series,and Garvey hit 122 points better THAN HIM in batting average in the NLCS.THEY AREN'T CLOSE. PEREZ DOESN'T EVEN QUALIFY (MINIMUM 100)IN THE HOF monitor.He has a 81 VERSUS GARVEY'S 130.5.YEAH THAT'S REAL CLOSE YOU HALF ******.That's not name calling.Anybody can observe it's half retarded to write what you did.

[gales0678]

Scuds (off topic) as a yankee fan my first memories are the 78 world series when Nettles stole game 3 from the dodgers then jackson beat you with his a** not his bat in game 4 , i think jim beattie won game 5 and catfish wrapped it up a chavez revine

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

This is borderline retarded .Garvey hit .318
in the World Series. Perez hit .242 in the World Series.That's an 76 point difference.Anybody knows Cincy was a powerful offensive team,and the Dodgers were a mainly pitching team.In that situation what would you expect would happen to RBI.I mean ,hell Garvey has 36 World Series Hits versus Perez' 23.They both played in 5 world Series.Dodgers choked in WORLD SERIES in 74,77,78..So not many people to knock in.Garvey hit .356 in the NLCS VERSUS PEREZ' .234.GARVEY HAD 21 RBI VERSUS PEREZ 14.GARVEY HAD 8 NLCS HOME RUNS VERSUS 3 FOR PEREZ.Anybody who played for Cincy in the 70's is gunna get a huge RBI bias in stats.Garvey had 32 nlcs hits versus 18 for Perez.Garvey hit 76 points better than him in the World series,and Garvey hit 122 points better THAN HIM in batting average in the NLCS.THEY AREN'T CLOSE. PEREZ DOESN'T EVEN QUALIFY (MINIMUM 100)IN THE HOF monitor.He has a 81 VERSUS GARVEY'S 130.5.YEAH THAT'S REAL CLOSE YOU HALF ******.That's not name calling.Anybody can observe it's half retarded to write what you did.

Perez and Garvey had similar careers. I will repeat myself. Perez had much more power. He had an OBP 15 points higher in his career than Garvey. I consider OBP a more imoprtant stat than batting average. Perez had a higher career slugging percentage. HOF voters are more interested in regular season stats than postseason otherwise Don Larsen and Brian Doyle would be in the HOF. All I said was I don't think tony Perez belongs in the HOF. I don't think Garvey belongs in the HOF either.

Please do not use the word retarded to describe my posts on this subject. I am sure many if not most baseball fans would agree with me that Steve Garvey is not HOF material and many would agree that Tony Perez is aobut on a par with Steve Garvey as a player. In fact, many would consider him better and some (mostly LA fans) would go with Garvey which is fine. If I were picking a team I would choose the first baseman that got on base more, hit more home runs and slugged for a higher percentage over the higher average, less power 1st baseman. Personally, I would say Tony Perez is a better player than Steve Garvey. And I have stated from the beginning that I do not think Perez is deserving of the HOF either.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Got a Grade 1 yet?

Take your medication yet?

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

Perez and Garvey had similar careers. I will repeat myself. Perez had much more power. He had an OBP 15 points higher in his career than Garvey. I consider OBP a more imoprtant stat than batting average. Perez had a higher career slugging percentage. HOF voters are more interested in regular season stats than postseason otherwise Don Larsen and Brian Doyle would be in the HOF. All I said was I don't think tony Perez belongs in the HOF. I don't think Garvey belongs in the HOF either.

Please do not use the word retarded to describe my posts on this subject. I am sure many if not most baseball fans would agree with me that Steve Garvey is not HOF material and many would agree that Tony Perez is aobut on a par with Steve Garvey as a player. In fact, many would consider him better and some (mostly LA fans) would go with Garvey which is fine. If I were picking a team I would choose the first baseman that got on base more, hit more home runs and slugged for a higher percentage over the higher average, less power 1st baseman. Personally, I would say Tony Perez is a better player than Steve Garvey. And I have stated from the beginning that I do not think Perez is deserving of the HOF either.

Well,you're just one of many that don't like Garvey,but to compare him to that piece of crap Perez is low. I'M never gunna let your forget it,either.Garvey has a league MVP,and you don't.You never got beyond 3rd in the voting.Garvey came 2nd in the voting in'78 also.You're not matching up with Garvey.You don't have the numbers.Garvey getting in to the HOF is probably not gunna happen,but he was a whole lot better than Tony Perez was.Well,**** man why don't you answer me why Garvey was starting 1st base in ALLSTAR GAMES in front of Perez? Perez was playing atleast 130 games per year '74 through '79.If he was better,or of equal ability, why didn't he start in the ALLSTAR GAME IN FRONT OF GARVEY? YOUR 1ST BASEMAN NEVER F'N EVER DID(AND NEVER WILL)START AS AN ALLSTAR 1ST BASEMAN.Garvey was a starting allstar 1st baseman 9 times.Even if you go to the "he didn't deserve it" card,and say he only deserved to start in half of those years,where is Perez to match that?Played same position,Garvey got voted in 9 times to start at 1st base.****** like you gunna tell me Perez was his match? Damn idiot.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Take your medication yet?

The guy who needs meds is the guy who said a 1st baseman (who never started at 1st base in an ALLSTAR game) is somehow better than a 1st baseman who started at 1st base in Allstar games.....9 times.That is simply an idiot.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Well,you're just one of many that don't like Garvey,but to compare him to that piece of crap Perez is low. I'M never gunna let your forget it,either.Garvey has a league MVP,and you don't.You never got beyond 3rd in the voting.Garvey came 2nd in the voting in'78 also.You're not matching up with Garvey.You don't have the numbers.Garvey getting in to the HOF is probably not gunna happen,but he was a whole lot better than Tony Perez was.Well,**** man why don't you answer me why Garvey was starting 1st base in ALLSTAR GAMES in front of Perez? Perez was playing atleast 130 games per year '74 through '79.If he was better,or of equal ability, why didn't he start in the ALLSTAR GAME IN FRONT OF GARVEY? YOUR 1ST BASEMAN NEVER F'N EVER DID(AND NEVER WILL)START AS AN ALLSTAR 1ST BASEMAN.Garvey was a starting allstar 1st baseman 9 times.Even if you go to the "he didn't deserve it" card,and say he only deserved to start in half of those years,where is Perez to match that?Played same position,Garvey got voted in 9 times to start at 1st base.****** like you gunna tell me Perez was his match? Damn idiot.

Tony Perez' best years were 1967 through 1973. Garvey didn't even start full time until 1973. Of course Perez never started an all star game ahead of Garvey. Perez was well past his prime when Garvey was in his. Perez had years that Garvey never came close to matching before Garvey was even playing. 1969 and 1970 were Perez' best years...Garvey could only dream of having years that big. I said I think they were similar players with similar careers. I actually think Perez was a better player overall. I honestly don't think Perez was his match. I think Perez was an overall better offensive player during his career. I don't care who their teammates were. Perez was better at OBP, slugging, OPS. I'll take that player any day. Stop being so clownish about this. Perez was 32 in 1974...Garvey was 25. So Garvey was better from 25 to 30 than Perez was from 33-38...cool analysis there scuds. That has tons of meaning. But that in essence is why Garvey was starting all star games ahead of Perez...he was basically 7 years younger than Perez.

I appreciate your love of the Dodgers and your support of Garvey. He was still not a better player than Perez at all. He made more contact and hit for a higher average. Those were the only two aspect of offense where Garvey surpassed Perez. Perez was better at everything else. Defense at first base?? Not a big deal in my opinion. Perez did start an all star game at 3rd base...something Garvey never did!!

So I guess I agree with you. If you eliminate 1965 through 1973 from Tony Perez' career, yes, Steve Garvey was indeed a better player. And if you eliminate 1919 through 1930, Garvey was better than Babe Ruth as well. And if you eliminate 1946-1958 he was better than Ted Williams. And if you eliminate 1960-1969 he was better than Hank Aaron. I like this game. At some point I think we can simply call Steve Garvey the best that ever played the game.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

I'm just stopping in long enough to let you know you're writing for everybody else,cuz I am not writing back n' forth about Garvey versus Perez.You're an idiot to think Perez is equal or better.If Perez had atleast 6 chances to beat him out for Allstar 1st baseman(and couldn't,) then shut the f up.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

I'm just stopping in long enough to let you know you're writing for everybody else,cuz I am not writing back n' forth about Garvey versus Perez.You're an idiot to think Perez is equal or better.If Perez had atleast 6 chances to beat him out for Allstar 1st baseman(and couldn't,) then shut the f up.

Settle down. Those were the days when players were past their prime not long after 30. Garvey never hit .300 again after age 31. His game declined sharply after that point as Perez did after that age. For you to tell me why wasn't a man 7 years older than Garvey in his prime beating him out to start all star games borders on craziness. All star game starts is something I don't even consider when judging players. And Perez was a much better player from 32 to 38 than Garvey was. I prefer Perez at any age over Garvey. And I honestly can't tell you why a 1st baseman who slugged .373, had an OBP of
.307 and hit under 10 home runs was starting an all star game I simply cannot tell you. So 1984 alone should tell you what all star starts mean.

So if you want to tell me a 1st baseman with a .670 OPS, 8 home runs and a
.284 average and 24 walks in 617 at bats is an all star starter which means he is a better player than Tony Perez continue on with full force is all I can say. Of course he also got an all star start in 1985 when his OPS was all the way up to .779 and he OBP was way up to .318 and 35 walks in 654 at bats.

So I'm sorry I'm not impressed with all those all star starts by Garvey. You keep on keeping on though.