PokerStars

[AeWingnut]

anyone playing on PokerStars? I was but today I decided that there are way too many suckouts. Sure, there are bad beats here and there. Aces get cracked often. But they intentionally set you up time and again. The one that killed it for me today was pocket Qs. The flop was 10 10 7. No over cards but I could be beat. I bet, he raises, I call. The turn card is a Queen. Sweet Fullhouse Queens over 10s. I bet he raises I re-raise he puts me all in.
cards are turned up. I was up against pockets Aces. Wow he has to be upset getting Aces cracked. I got him... or so I thought. Ace comes on the river. I'm done. Just over the top with 2nd best hands. if you are ahead at the flop or turn card you won't be on the river. This isn't luck this is by design.
my idea for a new PokerStars t-shirt "I got sucked out at PokerStars"

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by AeWingnut

anyone playing on PokerStars? I was but today I decided that there are way too many suckouts. Sure, there are bad beats here and there. Aces get cracked often. But they intentionally set you up time and again. The one that killed it for me today was pocket Qs. The flop was 10 10 7. No over cards but I could be beat. I bet, he raises, I call. The turn card is a Queen. Sweet Fullhouse Queens over 10s. I bet he raises I re-raise he puts me all in.
cards are turned up. I was up against pockets Aces. Wow he has to be upset getting Aces cracked. I got him... or so I thought. Ace comes on the river. I'm done. Just over the top with 2nd best hands. if you are ahead at the flop or turn card you won't be on the river. This isn't luck this is by design.
my idea for a new PokerStars t-shirt "I got sucked out at PokerStars"

I know that there is no way to prove it, but when you first deposit money you get all kinds of good cards and you are the one sucking out on people. Everyone I speak to , says they have always did well when they first opened their accounts. Then after a week they say that they get the worse beats ever on the site. I just used to play those small sit and go's. I did ok for a while and actually made some money. Nothing big. After a while I just got tired of it. I would rather play the ponies than sit there and play cards.

[AeWingnut]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

I know that there is no way to prove it, but when you first deposit money you get all kinds of good cards and you are the one sucking out on people. Everyone I speak to , says they have always did well when they first opened their accounts. Then after a week they say that they get the worse beats ever on the site. I just used to play those small sit and go's. I did ok for a while and actually made some money. Nothing big. After a while I just got tired of it. I would rather play the ponies than sit there and play cards.

Yes, it's not like you have top two pair and someone beats you with a set because they have pocket 4s and there is a 4 on the turn. (saw that often)It is the runner runner with the only 2 cards in the entire deck that can beat you. You will have 6 or more outs they only have one and they get it. I was almost convinced they were poker-bots. No one in their right mind would call some of the bets unless they knew what the cards were going to be. I guess if you can afford to play long enough you would recognize it. But seriously I have seen 4 of a kind several times and I got a straight flush on the flop once. Ofcourse I made a minimum bet after the turn and everyone folded.

I've seen some of the stars playing. They play against the same people on a couple tables. it's a little suspect. Tried cashing out but supposedly waiting on my last deposit to clear before they will allow me to cashout.

Maybe we need to get a blog started

http://www.igotsuckedoutatpokerstars.blogspot.com

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by AeWingnut

Yes, it's not like you have top two pair and someone beats you with a set because they have pocket 4s and there is a 4 on the turn. (saw that often)It is the runner runner with the only 2 cards in the entire deck that can beat you. You will have 6 or more outs they only have one and they get it. I was almost convinced they were poker-bots. No one in their right mind would call some of the bets unless they knew what the cards were going to be. I guess if you can afford to play long enough you would recognize it. But seriously I have seen 4 of a kind several times and I got a straight flush on the flop once. Ofcourse I made a minimum bet after the turn and everyone folded.
I've seen some of the stars playing. They play against the same people on a couple tables. it's a little suspect. Tried cashing out but supposedly waiting on my last deposit to clear before they will allow me to cashout.

Maybe we need to get a blog started

http://www.igotsuckedoutatpokerstars.blogspot.com

I forgot about those, you try to slow play a monster and someone cracks you on the river. If you have the nuts, make the mininum bet people are running from you like you have the plauge! Have to admit, I have never thought about poker bots, but it wouldn't suprise me at all.

[hi_im_god]

this conversation is an example of why i long ago blocked all chat when i play.

between table coaches and "this site is fixed", there really isn't much worth reading.

the problem i'm hearing expressed is an externalization of an internal problem. you may have completely mastered the skill portion of the game (or not) but completely lack the ability to deal with bad luck. and bad luck is going to happen to anyone who gambles, no matter their skill.

good and bad runs are part of the game. it's human nature that you ascribe the good runs to a little luck and a lot of skill. but the bad runs seem so impossibly inexplicable that there must be some outside force involved. so you pull out a talisman. or pray. or convince yourself the site is fixed.

you haven't mastered the luck.

the house rakes the same amount on these websites. whether they control the fall of cards or leave it random. why would they risk everything for nothing?

you haven't mastered the luck. it's you. you had a bad run. play long enough and you'll have a worse one. it's isn't that you angered god. it isn't that you forgot to wear green. it isn't a cheat. your perception is wrong.

if you think i'm wrong, you should not be playing.

[AeWingnut]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

this conversation is an example of why i long ago blocked all chat when i play.

between table coaches and "this site is fixed", there really isn't much worth reading.

the problem i'm hearing expressed is an externalization of an internal problem. you may have completely mastered the skill portion of the game (or not) but completely lack the ability to deal with bad luck. and bad luck is going to happen to anyone who gambles, no matter their skill.

good and bad runs are part of the game. it's human nature that you ascribe the good runs to a little luck and a lot of skill. but the bad runs seem so impossibly inexplicable that there must be some outside force involved. so you pull out a talisman. or pray. or convince yourself the site is fixed.

you haven't mastered the luck.

the house rakes the same amount on these websites. whether they control the fall of cards or leave it random. why would they risk everything for nothing?

you haven't mastered the luck. it's you. you had a bad run. play long enough and you'll have a worse one. it's isn't that you angered god. it isn't that you forgot to wear green. it isn't a cheat. your perception is wrong.

if you think i'm wrong, you should not be playing.

it's the probablities. In horse racing ,what are the probabilities that there will be 3 consecutive races where the longest shot on the board wins? What is the probability that they will all be over 50-1.

That is what I see at Poker Stars. Too often I have seen 4 of a kind. Too often the dominate hand is beat. You'll never see this in an actual game. My perceptions are reality.

The odds that my Qs were up against a bigger pocket pair are 0.009% and to be ahead with a full house and then lose with only 1 of the 2 aces left in the deck is like 0.00001%

the odds of seeing 3 of kind on the flop (community cards) is 459 to 1 yet Poker Stars does it with regularity.

Not playing PokerStars anymore. Just waiting to get my money out and never go back. It isn't an isolated incident. You are the first one that has ever said anything in their defense. I am not alone on the "luck" Yes, the house take is the same unless the house is playing. I don't believe they are but the program is completely screwed up.

[herkhorse]

I would have to agree with god here. Why would they care who win or loses?

[skippy3481]

why would they care, because if their bots are winning, they dont have to pay out the purses.... Thats why online websites have always been accused of using bots or people that have access to the software who can see all the cards. When you go into a casino, you dont mind if the house employs players to try to clean up at the tables, at least they have no advantage other then their own personal skills. If your playing someone who knows what everyone has and what the cards are going to be.... you can't win.

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by AeWingnut

it's the probablities. In horse racing ,what are the probabilities that there will be 3 consecutive races where the longest shot on the board wins? What is the probability that they will all be over 50-1.

That is what I see at Poker Stars. Too often I have seen 4 of a kind. Too often the dominate hand is beat. You'll never see this in an actual game. My perceptions are reality.

The odds that my Qs were up against a bigger pocket pair are 0.009% and to be ahead with a full house and then lose with only 1 of the 2 aces left in the deck is like 0.00001%

the odds of seeing 3 of kind on the flop (community cards) is 459 to 1 yet Poker Stars does it with regularity.

Not playing PokerStars anymore. Just waiting to get my money out and never go back. It isn't an isolated incident. You are the first one that has ever said anything in their defense. I am not alone on the "luck" Yes, the house take is the same unless the house is playing. I don't believe they are but the program is completely screwed up.

i'm not defending any particular website. i'm defending rational thought.

the odds of 3 races in a row being won by 50-1 shots is 75,000-1 assuming none of the horses are overlays/underlays and ignoring takeout.

the odds you lost that last hand (after being dominated pre-flop, after the flop, and then hitting a 2 outer on the turn) was 2/45 or about 22.5-1. there were 2 aces of the 45 unknown cards in that scenario.

the odds you would have hit your 2 outer on the turn were exactly 23-1 (2 cards out of 46). the odds that you hit your 2 outer and then he hit his 2 outer are 23-1 x 22.5-1 or 517.5-1.

somewhat less than 75,000-1.

the odds that pokerstars is gaming their softwear to create these situations is where i call on you to think hard about your perception.

if they are, they lost you and everyone else who has noticed this as customers generating rake for them.

rummaging around in our own basements to find the broken pipes leaking water that are causing us to think the river flooded is never any fun. it's hard ugly work.

but it pays off. not just in poker.

[IrishofNDMan]

I played on full tilt a lot, didn't make any money but lost interest in it. I've been playing live action hold em a lot lately, where the rake goes towards charity and have not only enjoyed playing but have been doing well. They have tournaments but I stick to the cash game, which is 1-2 no limit max buy in of $200. I've noticed I do much better playing live rather than online, so that is what I will stick to.

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by skippy3481

why would they care, because if their bots are winning, they dont have to pay out the purses.... Thats why online websites have always been accused of using bots or people that have access to the software who can see all the cards. When you go into a casino, you dont mind if the house employs players to try to clean up at the tables, at least they have no advantage other then their own personal skills. If your playing someone who knows what everyone has and what the cards are going to be.... you can't win.

"why would they care, because if their bots are winning, they dont have to pay out the purses...."

rock climbers rate climbs on 2 scales. difficulty and exposure. difficulty doesn't need to be explained. exposure is the rating of what happens to you if you fall. a low exposure is you skin your knee on some granite. a high exposure is your femur introduces itself to your lungs.

the websites make their nut on churn, same as the racetracks. what you are suggesting is they are risking everything (hello lung! hello femur!) to make a marginally higher return. would you do that if you were scraping $0.50-$3.00 off hundreds of tables every few minutes?

"When you go into a casino, you dont mind if the house employs players to try to clean up at the tables, at least they have no advantage other then their own personal skills."

live casino's don't employ people to clean up at the tables. they pay players to start games or fill out short tables. the casino gets no part of the prop's winnings and are not responsible for any part of what they lose. they pay an hourly wage same as they do to dealers/chip runner's/food and beverage service. their calculation is more players = more rake. and prop's help fill out short tables. if you're one of those players you have to be willing to be told what game and what limit you're to sit at. and you get up and leave as soon as they need to fill another game. regardless of how juicy the table you just started might be. it's a f'in grind.

"If your playing someone who knows what everyone has and what the cards are going to be.... you can't win."

so if you lost this is a very convienent excuse to not look at the holes in your own boat.

[MaTH716]

It goes back to that perception thing. I do not think that they have poker bots, but I am not 100% sure. After a couple of crazy beats, you start to think. And you are right, why would they jepordize that rake that they make on every hand. But on the other hand, how could you prove that they had the bots? So why only make .30-3.00 a hand when you can occasionally take down any sort of pot every couple of hands?

[pmayjr]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

this conversation is an example of why i long ago blocked all chat when i play.

between table coaches and "this site is fixed", there really isn't much worth reading.

the problem i'm hearing expressed is an externalization of an internal problem. you may have completely mastered the skill portion of the game (or not) but completely lack the ability to deal with bad luck. and bad luck is going to happen to anyone who gambles, no matter their skill.

good and bad runs are part of the game. it's human nature that you ascribe the good runs to a little luck and a lot of skill. but the bad runs seem so impossibly inexplicable that there must be some outside force involved. so you pull out a talisman. or pray. or convince yourself the site is fixed.

you haven't mastered the luck.

the house rakes the same amount on these websites. whether they control the fall of cards or leave it random. why would they risk everything for nothing?

you haven't mastered the luck. it's you. you had a bad run. play long enough and you'll have a worse one. it's isn't that you angered god. it isn't that you forgot to wear green. it isn't a cheat. your perception is wrong.

if you think i'm wrong, you should not be playing.

Normally I'd totally agree with you, but some of the ways I've been snapped off on that site as well, I wonder too... I play at Canterbury Park, where they have limit hold 'em and everyone calls you with everything. I also play in a crazy home game where people call you with everything (the home game is NL). In both the Canterbury and home-games, I've been snapped off pretty bad. BUT NOTHING LIKE POKER STARS. Ever since that internet gambling legislation came down, I haven't invested anymore $$$$ in it. But I'm just sayin...

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by pmayjr

Normally I'd totally agree with you, but some of the ways I've been snapped off on that site as well, I wonder too... I play at Canterbury Park, where they have limit hold 'em and everyone calls you with everything. I also play in a crazy home game where people call you with everything (the home game is NL). In both the Canterbury and home-games, I've been snapped off pretty bad. BUT NOTHING LIKE POKER STARS. Ever since that internet gambling legislation came down, I haven't invested anymore $$$$ in it. But I'm just sayin...

so one more customer they've lost who could be building their rake.

does anyone else see the madness in this?

everyone is abandoning these websites because they can't win. obviously that's because the sites are fixed. the alternative is unthinkable.

i guess the theory is the on line poker industry will maximize their profit when the have just 1 player left who has all the money and no one to play against.

[skippy3481]

God, we aren't talking about small time rake games,I'm talking about high end games and tourneys. I'll confess I've never actually played at pokerstars for money... but their weekly sunday tournament consistently gives top prize of over 115K. If they randomly created bots or even used players that had access to the software, wouldn't that be an advantage to them.

Secondly, How would anyone ever know they were doing it.... I'm sure they have a great random number generator thats gets tested and certified, but anyone with adminstrator privileges would be able to see everyones hand. The company has the potential to skim a good deal of money off the top with very little "exposure" as you call it.

Of course saying the game is rigged is an easy excuse because you can't prove otherwise. I'm not stating that is or is not rigged, but the possibility of it is far more likely then you think.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by skippy3481

God, we aren't talking about small time rake games,I'm talking about high end games and tourneys. I'll confess I've never actually played at pokerstars for money... but their weekly sunday tournament consistently gives top prize of over 115K. If they randomly created bots or even used players that had access to the software, wouldn't that be an advantage to them.

Secondly, How would anyone ever know they were doing it.... I'm sure they have a great random number generator thats gets tested and certified, but anyone with adminstrator privileges would be able to see everyones hand. The company has the potential to skim a good deal of money off the top with very little "exposure" as you call it.

Of course saying the game is rigged is an easy excuse because you can't prove otherwise. I'm not stating that is or is not rigged, but the possibility of it is far more likely then you think.

I agree with you, but I honestly doubt people really care. If you really think about it, there is an infinite amount of screen names that someone could use and if crafty enough, who knows what damage could be done.

To give you an example of hilariousness, it has become a Sunday ritual that 4 of my friends play in those $10+$1 NL Holdem KO tourneys on Full Tilt. All four of them are in the same room, on the same wireless internet. Many times they have sat at the same table, pretty comedy

[IrishofNDMan]

Originally Posted by Scav

I agree with you, but I honestly doubt people really care. If you really think about it, there is an infinite amount of screen names that someone could use and if crafty enough, who knows what damage could be done.

To give you an example of hilariousness, it has become a Sunday ritual that 4 of my friends play in those $10+$1 NL Holdem KO tourneys on Full Tilt. All four of them are in the same room, on the same wireless internet. Many times they have sat at the same table, pretty comedy

I love the knockout tournaments on full tilt, and me and my brother actually both sign up and play in the same tournament. We have been at the same table a few times and we are in the same room playing or talking on the phone. It obviously won't let us sit down together at a cash table, but I guess nothing they can do in the tournaments.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by IrishofNDMan

I love the knockout tournaments on full tilt, and me and my brother actually both sign up and play in the same tournament. We have been at the same table a few times and we are in the same room playing or talking on the phone. It obviously won't let us sit down together at a cash table, but I guess nothing they can do in the tournaments.

Why can't you sit at the same cash table?

[IrishofNDMan]

Originally Posted by Scav

Why can't you sit at the same cash table?

Same last name and location would be my guess. We have tried, but it will not allow us to.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by IrishofNDMan

Same last name and location would be my guess. We have tried, but it will not allow us to.

Very interesting, good to know also