Mario o' Mario, please go back to Maryland o' Mario!

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Meridian_Artisan

^^^Giacomo' number one fan.

Me? No way. Only Derby I ever attended and felt like I paid to see a Paris Hilton movie.

[Mortimer]

Originally Posted by philcski

Me? No way. Only Derby I ever attended and felt like I paid to see a Paris Hilton movie.

Very insulting to Paris Hilton fans.




Both of them.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Meridian_Artisan

Very insulting to Paris Hilton fans.




Both of them.

Who's the other member of your exclusive club? Does he happen to go by the alias of "Blackthroatedwind"?

[Mortimer]

Originally Posted by philcski

Who's the other member of your exclusive club? Does he happen to go by the alias of "Blackthroatedwind"?

You won't get that out of me.



But you might out of Steve.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by philcski

The speed duel that Pino (and the rest of us) had likely anticipated never really materialized.

Yeah, that's twice in a row that Go Go Shoot has gotten the jump on Accredit. Must be a conspiracy of some sort.

Hard to clearly tell on the web replay but it appears that Go Go Shoot is on lefty lead on the BS. (He's a short and low strider.)
And it took him till very late stretch to change to righty lead. Which means that he might've gone almost the entire race lefty. Which makes his performance all the more impressive.

Then again, if Pino gets through ......

[MaTH716]

Mario gets stuck on the rail again in the 3rd. Looks like he had some horse, should of definatley hit the board.

[golfer]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

Mario gets stuck on the rail again in the 3rd. Looks like he had some horse, should of definatley hit the board.

I thought I was watching a replay of the other race. Should have hit the board is putting it mildly. Gold and Blue Box is driving me nuts (and to the poorhouse).

[Travis Stone]

It was an absolutely horrendous ride.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

It was an absolutely horrendous ride.

Here's the problem, at least as I see it.....Pino was told when he came here to stick to the inside if possible, as clearly that has been the correct approach for most of the inner meet. So, he is trying to do the right thing, but what he is really doing is overthinking it, and not really race riding. He did everything right on this horse until the stretch.....he rode patiently, got outside the jammed inside horse on the turn without needlessly losing ground, and then he got himself in a jackpot and decided to head inside. However, his other option was to steady and alter course around Boggy Creek Dancer. While in retrospect I guess that would have been a better move he might have been heroic had his actual decision worked out.

Now, in watching this race a few times, I honestly believe the horse didn't have that much anyway, but that's somewhat subjective. Now, maybe his recent bad trips have been a succession of unlucky breaks, or maybe he's just one of those horses that always ends up looking like he had trouble. However, horseplayers go broke following good money after bad with horses like this. Look at it this way, if he had somehow gotten clear today, and even won, he would have accomplished it with a perfect trip.....and we would be looking to bet against him next time. Instead, he will be on everyone's ( well, not mine ) " horses to bet back " list, and will be way overbet.

I'm no great fan of Pino......but I'm also no fan of this horse.

[blackthroatedwind]

Let me also say that considering the incredible ineptitude we have witnessed on the inner this year, I would rather have a guy trying to do the right thing than so many of the " just go where they aint " rides I have seen.

Keep this in mind.......Taylor Hole is the second most reliable rider out there right now.

[blackthroatedwind]

Another thing is that people far too often focus on blatant trouble in the stretch and downplay, or even miss, early trouble that results in horses losing significant postion that is often far more detrimental to their chances.

There's an interesting example of this in tomorrow's third race at Aqueduct. That'srightofficer, who has the comment line " rallied into stretch ", actually had significant, but much subtler trouble, in his last race. Now, he was greatly overshadowed by the crazy effort the winner of the race put in, despite CC Lopez's ineptitude, but he clearly should have been second in the race. His rider, Norberto Arroyo, was also punished for trying to do the right thing, for which I don't fault him. He simply got skunked. But, nobody is talking about his trip because it didn't happen right in front of everyone's eyes.

[Travis Stone]

I know what you're saying throat, but I felt like the entire second half of the race he did not put himself in an optimum position to win. If he was told stay inside, well, that's tough, cause you listen to the advice given when you're in a new area.

That said, it looked to me like he had plenty of horse throughout. My frustration arose on the far turn, when he was out-maneuvered by a rival to the outside and was suddenly left with that decision: inside or out? Maybe the in-hand style he was using was an aberration and that's why he did not commit outside. But I would rather go a bit wide and see if there's horse there, as opposed to wait inside and get into trouble.

And you're right, stretch-trips are over-rated as opposed to mid-race struggles. I think this all boiled from about the 5/16's on, and my commentary also stems from watching that other race either last week or two weeks ago where Pino was flying up the rail only to get stuck late.

Do I chase this horse next time? Probably, just so I can hopefully justify the time spent this long-winded response!

[golfer]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

I know what you're saying throat, but I felt like the entire second half of the race he did not put himself in an optimum position to win. If he was told stay inside, well, that's tough, cause you listen to the advice given when you're in a new area.

That said, it looked to me like he had plenty of horse throughout. My frustration arose on the far turn, when he was out-maneuvered by a rival to the outside and was suddenly left with that decision: inside or out? Maybe the in-hand style he was using was an aberration and that's why he did not commit outside. But I would rather go a bit wide and see if there's horse there, as opposed to wait inside and get into trouble.

And you're right, stretch-trips are over-rated as opposed to mid-race struggles. I think this all boiled from about the 5/16's on, and my commentary also stems from watching that other race either last week or two weeks ago where Pino was flying up the rail only to get stuck late.

Do I chase this horse next time? Probably, just so I can hopefully justify the time spent this long-winded response!

Travis, someone needs to explain to him (and others) that saving ground is only important on the turns! If you give him the benefit of the doubt that allowing Boggy Creek to "out-move" him wide on the turn was the right thing to do, especially with a stretch runner, there is absolutely no reason to remain glued to the rail in the stretch. His rides on Laysh and Gold and Blue Box were identical, and incredibly frustrating if you had a wager on either (or worse, both ).

[pgiaco]

I'm not one to defend jocks but Gold and Blue Box doesn't run worth a damn unless he is covered up in the stretch so it looks like he gets into trouble every race because that is how he has torun. I had my eye on him to claim him last year, but decided against him beacause he was a little too quirky.

[blackthroatedwind]

In yesterday's first race at Aqueduct, Mario Pino gave She's a Tuf Cookie a good ground saving ride into the stretch versus 1:9 favorite Shelby's Memory. At the top of the stretch he smoothly angled her out and eventually wore down the favorite. The only problem was when he angled out he left the inside open to Roxanne's Dancer, who took advantage of that position, and rallied to win the race.

Was Pino wrong this time? Not in my opinion, and I bet his horse, but I thought in the spirit of this thread I should point out that perhaps even the right decision ends up being the wrong one. There's plenty of jockey buffoonery at all racetracks but I have found a lot of selective Mario Pino bashing ( none more ridiculous than the 2007 Preakness ) to be misguided.

[NoLuvForPletch]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

In yesterday's first race at Aqueduct, Mario Pino gave She's a Tuf Cookie a good ground saving ride into the stretch versus 1:9 favorite Shelby's Memory. At the top of the stretch he smoothly angled her out and eventually wore down the favorite. The only problem was when he angled out he left the inside open to Roxanne's Dancer, who took advantage of that position, and rallied to win the race.

Was Pino wrong this time? Not in my opinion, and I bet his horse, but I thought in the spirit of this thread I should point out that perhaps even the right decision ends up being the wrong one. There's plenty of jockey buffoonery at all racetracks but I have found a lot of selective Mario Pino bashing ( none more ridiculous than the 2007 Preakness ) to be misguided.

Okay, a few things here. While I agree with you most often, in regards to Mr Pino I do not. First, what he did yesterday what plain and simply the correct move. When his horse was getting to the leader, there wasn't nearly as much room as there was when Cedeno got there. Second on that track and the way it has been playing, he couldn't have been concerned about anyone coming from behind to run him down, therefore leaving the rail open for a miracle is not wrong. Lastly, yesterday's loss and the nonsense he pulled on Laysh, Laysh, Laysh are two different things, IMO. Of course, I wasn't on the horse, so I really can't see what he was hoping to accomplish by running up the asses of two horses. Maybe the earlier ride influenced his ride of yesterday?

As it pertains to his Preakness ride, REALLY? You honestly feel as though what he did in that race was the right thing? Running into garbage throwing down 45 and 3, and his own fractions of 109 and 4 and 134 and 3? Wow, I'm pretty sure I prefer the trips that Curlin and Street Sense got and supposedly to be forced to move early because 25-1 CP West was making a move is lunacy. Hard Spun probably ran a 22 and change quarter in the middle of that race somewhere. Not good for race going a mile and 3/16ths. I admit my opinion is quite slanted when it comes to Hard Spun, but between this ride and the Belmont ride he couldn't have possibly had two worse trips. I do realize Go-Go was aboard for that horror show in Elmont.

Maybe I should create my alterego, NoLuvForPino...

[blackthroatedwind]

I agree with you that the two rides were different situations, as most are, but I thought it was worth pointing out that sometimes doing what you and I both know is the right thing ends up ironically blowing up in one's face.

As for the Preakness, I don't have the energy, but I don't believe he had a realistic choice with CP West ranging up outside of him, and considering natural instincts of a competitive racehorse, wrangling him back could have, and well would have, been both difficult and a mistake. I can hear the criticisms he would have taken for that ringing in my head when it inevitably blew up as well. The bottom line is he finished exactly where he should have that day.....third. He was never going to beat either of those two horses if denied the early lead.

By the way, it is only recently that I have even seen him ride on any kind of regular basis, and my only history with him has been what Andy Beyer has told me about him.....and we all know that isn't complimentary. I'm far from predisposed to be a Pino fan but I just think I have seen some recent unfair criticism of him. Considering what Norberto Arroyo did in yesterday's 8th race, and what Pablo Fragoso did in the 9th, two rides nobody has seen fit to comment on, I feel there is far worse going on at Aqueduct that for whatever reason ( perhaps because it is less obvious ) gets completely ignored.

[NoLuvForPletch]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I agree with you that the two rides were different situations, as most are, but I thought it was worth pointing out that sometimes doing what you and I both know is the right thing ends up ironically blowing up in one's face.

As for the Preakness, I don't have the energy, but I don't believe he had a realistic choice with CP West ranging up outside of him, and considering natural instincts of a competitive racehorse, wrangling him back could have, and well would have, been both difficult and a mistake. I can hear the criticisms he would have taken for that ringing in my head when it inevitably blew up as well. The bottom line is he finished exactly where he should have that day.....third. He was never going to beat either of those two horses if denied the early lead.

By the way, it is only recently that I have even seen him ride on any kind of regular basis, and my only history with him has been what Andy Beyer has told me about him.....and we all know that isn't complimentary. I'm far from predisposed to be a Pino fan but I just think I have seen some recent unfair criticism of him. Considering what Norberto Arroyo did in yesterday's 8th race, and what Pablo Fragoso did in the 9th, two rides nobody has seen fit to comment on, I feel there is far worse going on at Aqueduct that for whatever reason ( perhaps because it is less obvious ) gets completely ignored.

What, you didn't think Regal Playtime had "rate me into submission" written all over her? What was Arroyo supposed to do, try and save 3rd money? My guess is that many on this board were probably happy about the 3/5 running out as I don't feel we are a group of chalkeaters. Though some Pick 6ers were probably on board, but may have been out well before that. Hence the lack of comments.

Pablo's ride is a tough call. Stacked 3 across in front of him, he made a call to go outside. He could've sat and waited I guess, but I suppose he knew he had horse, as did apparently quite a few people the way she was bet, and went for it.

You are right though, the overall performance of the jockey colony has been pitiful. Hell, at this point I'm looking for Chuckie on some speed and hoping for the best.

[asudevil]

Originally Posted by NoLuvForPletch

Anyone care to take on the task of explaining what Mr Pino was thinking in the 8th at Aqueduct yesterday (Feb 18)? He must've been watching the series premiere of KNIGHT RIDER (which might be off the air before the Gotham, that is how bad it was) the night before and thought he was driving KITT because the only way he was going to win from where he put that horse was to hit Turbo Boost and go over them. How does he not angle out at the 1/16 pole once clear of the horse to his outside?

Did today change your mind?

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by asudevil

Did today change your mind?

I had a feeling someone was going to bring this up.